What happened to Whitemane? Please revert all talents/abilities to original

General Discussion
41

Conpletely changing a hero and decimating/removing an entire build wasn’t necessarily necessary.

Rather than that, some nerfs could’ve been used.

I wont say that she was “completely balanced”-- she had a zeratul thing going on in that the really good players on Chromie could make a much bigger difference than on other heroes. That is to say, she has a higher skill ceiling, I suppose. And that skill ceiling may as well have been without a roof, for all intents and purposes.

She was sitting at a 50% winrate in ranked, though, and was the 1# popular hero back when she had her infinity sandblast quest.

puts it perfectly, honestly.

It’s a dangerous road to take with all reworks that aren’t because the hero is simply completely outdated like Raynor, Kerrigan and Chen were.

There are plenty of people who completely main a Hero. Completely destroying these heroes risks aliening players and driving them off.

As it is, I play this game waaaaay less than before Chromie time trap-build removal. And of the less playing I do of this game, it’s also waaaaaay less Chromie as I can’t really stand the new Chromie.

For the most part, I only play Chromie for nostalgia’s sake and mostly only when I’m in a proper group playing with healers & tanks because she’s so utterly defenseless and weak now. Just a paper-thin glass cannon.

If we’re balancing for anti-fun reasons, then please remove Abathur who is a truly annoying slug with global healing/shielding/extra damage that turns some heroes into monsters and everyone a little more annoying as well as making rotations a pain not to mention the occasional mega toxic nests bombs, as well Zeratul with his dozens of teleports and KTZ who can delete two heroes at a time and can delete entire 5man teams alone as has been seen on Wtf moments a number of times so far.

And get rid of the anti-fun living bomb since people keep running to me with them while I try to run away from them fruitlessly.

2 Likes
42

I find her very fun. I’m nearly level 50. Easily the most fun healer to play.

2 Likes
43

It’s funny how there’s 2 simultaneous discussions going on with WM and Chromie.
Did you play WM before the rework? I feel like they had some nice ideas with the new trait and the E quest.
But removing my favorite talents from level 1, 4, and 7. Especially 7.
Fanatical power was Amazing!.. I just can’t… it just makes me sad to play her now. Melee attack… not fun… it’s just not.

@Narha
It’s sad to hear that Chromie also had some fun stuff removed.
The W on Chromie was pretty dodgy tho, Especially at level 1. I haven’t read your rework it might be a good read.

44

Yes, I was level 30 before the rework.

Honestly I feel like the only thing we lost in the rework was the weird mana replenishing loop she had. The FP change was a bit weird, but not a big change really. I’ve adapted pretty easily to this new rework because she doesn’t actually play that differently. QQW, AA whenever possible. Much the same really.

3 Likes
45

So srr, was off the forum for so long.
Played Whitemane a bit again recently. She is… I mean she could be so much more interesting. She just has no potential to get any solo kills anymore.
I used to play her with Fanatical Power.
FP+AltQ+EW on a target. Laugh in their face as you heal yourself and kill them.
It was great.
The Armor Reduction on the Trait is kinda interesting but it removes all potential for soloing anything. You gotta stay with your team at all times.
And the lvl 1 Clemency… Clemency is just so boring… unless you get Shared Punishment, then it’s kinda badass.
Would be funny to get a Talent that can bridge from enemy to ally and back to enemy.
The Mana Loop would be fun to have back with W. It used to be hilarious to Panicly run through 5 enemies while Alt+Qing , then briefly turn around to W and then keep running while you Alt+Q some more.
It was like an escape mechanic, and it was unique to WhiteMane.
As it is now… I prefer Stukov, BW and Tyrande. They are much more interesting, with more skill ceiling.

46

I was and still against the rework yet I have to concur with you, Whitemane is not dead. She can be still pretty fun but perhaps just like how I did there are many who still attempt the same style they had pre-rework. And it doesn’t work, or at least only works if you have a decent team.

The aspects which make WM stand out as a healer are still there.

47

That was like… ALWAYS the point of it.

Let me just make a loud exaggerated sigh.
I just want to let you know how annoying it is to see people complaining about things without understanding how they work.
Just a second more.
…
…
Ok. YOU DON’T HAVE TO CHANNEL FOR IT TO REMOVE DESPERATION OR APPLY ZEAL.
Q->1->Q is 3 Zeal 90 mana.
Q->Q->Q is 3 Zeal for 265 mana.
This matters if you go AA or Lash build, but everyone insists on going Inquisition.
If you don’t learn to take full advantage of your tools, how can you complain about your tools?

Ugh… too true.
She feels pretty much exactly the same to me, except I have the option to activate her trait.
I do think it was a bad idea to try to make her auto-attack focused.
Her trait and her whole playstyle is built around timing Q right as desperation falls off, and mass spamming Q when things get… desperate.
I think they should have shifted her healing in that direction, decoupling her damage from her healing a bit so having damage builds wouldn’t be a problem.
She’s still a good healer. She’s just not an assassin/tank/healer.

4 Likes
48

Very interesting listening to the Interview on In To The Nexus and seeing how…none of what they said was applied to the Whitemane rework (Especially the initial iteration). But alas, the personality and skins keep drawing me in, even if she isn’t as fun

1 Like
49

tbh idc at all about the actual abillities i just want the hearth talent back because it was SO MUCH FUNNN :frowning:

50

I never played Whitemane pre-rework. But she is one of my favorite healers (and in fact, favorite heroes) currently. :man_shrugging:

2 Likes
51

If you enjoy her now, you’d have enjoyed her so much more pre-rework. Mana management talents that should have been tuned numerically were completely removed, and she’s been turned into an AA bot.

She used to be my most played hero, and though her base kit is almost the same I can barely look at her now without feeling depressed at how gutted her talent tree is. :cry:

1 Like
52

You don’t get it. There’s no mini game with desperation now. There’s no, W to gain mana back or E to gain mana back, or lose mana for a shield. It’s just there to be there

2 Likes
53

Old Chromie didn’t have stacks. She was the best Chromie.

yes I mean her very first iteration

54

Actually, I’m one of the only Whitemanes who plays in the higher levels of plays, and I have to say that none of her other builds can ever apply to Diamond+

Only Pity the Frail or pure W build, as much as you can try with other builds, their performance are simply suboptimal compared to W build.

3 Likes
55

Very much this.
In a way it trails me back to the old W build yet overall different. Clemency is awesome for Zeal uptime and having the potential to cast it twice within 3 seconds can be hard to beat by anything else. Later the CC effect of W can make it almost oppressive so you can really help out your team. The best part is that aside from Pity the Frail most of your talent choices are still flexible. The part where you are locked down is your style.
That’s my humble opinion on the reworked Whitemane, at least.

56

Yeah there is, but they shifted one stack spam healing in the direction of being concerned with healing with Zeal stacks, rather than letting you get decent healing with Desperate Plea itself, unless you go Martyrdom. Which I think is a mistake, tying healing to damage so closely.

I admit I’ve mostly played in QM, but with a range of 7.5 it’s not always easy to sit and channel Inquisition for a full 3 seconds…
A single Searing Lash hit with Righteous Flame’s base 25% bonus heals for as much as 1 second of Clemency or Inquisition, and by not needing to use those for healing you can use them to quickly apply another mark of Zeal and drop your Desperation so you can apply a third.
That means hitting a single hero with just the first part of Lash will heal for as much as a full channel from your beam. Granted that healing is spread amongst multiple heroes, but sometimes that is what you need.
It also doesn’t require you to sit in place and not be interrupted, and adds on the healing from the second Desperte Plea cast without costing more mana, as well as healing for MORE if you hit a second hero or the second hit from Lash.

I just don’t see how that can always be the case. It doesn’t add up.

57

Well this is what people dislike. She went from having 3 different options for mana gameplay at level 4 to a drastically defensive “omg im always out of mana if I even dare to click Q a bit more” playstyle. Regardless of how balanced Unwavering faith or High Inquisitor and Indulgence were, they gave you 3 options to play with your mana and Desperation. Something the rework took away. If you, in your own personal opinion, like the changes, so be it. However its very god damn obvious she lost something unique people were attached to

3 Likes
58

I got this a bit wrong, as Pity the Frail heals more if the target is below 30% health, but that isn’t always the case.

That’s kind of how she was always meant to be.
That’s why Desperate Plea has no cooldown, but Desperation has a 4 second cooldown the cooldown most basic heals have.
So if you keep using it as soon as Desperation drops off, you’re healing about as often as a normal healer.
The problem is they bumped up the initial heal’s mana cost (30->45), but didn’t bump up the healing very much. And they did this because she heals by doing damage.
Even still, when I play this way I never come close to going out of mana.

And part of the reason is because she does actually have several options to help her with mana management.
One, like I said earlier, is Clemency Canceling for the instant Zeal stack and Desperation reduction, if you need to heal multiple targets by doing damage with Lash or Autos.
Two is activating her trait which was a stronger talent, but is now a lower cooldown baseline ability. You don’t have to use it when doing damage, so you don’t have to put yourself at risk from the 25% armor reduction. I do think she could benefit immensely if the cooldown was dropped a little bit though, as her healing almost seems balanced around using it… Though I still have used it after a combat, just to heal myself quicker and more mana efficiently.
Three is Divine Reckoning, which can restore a fair amount of mana at times.
Four, Indulgence was basically turned into Inquisitor’s Prayer. You have to land a lot more hits to gain the same level of mana, but primary hits now grant it, and by increasing max mana rather than healing a set amount the benefit adds up through the whole match.

I do miss the old unwavering faith, and I do think they tried to shift her toward doing damage to heal but left her with somewhat questionable levels of somewhat risky damage.

Well yeah, people were spoiled by being able to completely ignore the costs of her trait.
I don’t think they’re going to be able to fix that.

1 Like
59

Soloing? Sorry but a Healer should never solo anything. Since he/she isn’t able to help (heal) the team.
If Blizzard removed the possibility of soloing. They did absolutely the right thing.

60

Yes and by taking away the mana gameplay they lessened her playstyle variety to 1 from 3.

Nobody was spoiled. It was her main gimmick. They talked about her level 4s in her spotlight. People miss her because they liked this mini game of managing mana with her level 4 options and negating her desperation. That was literally what that entire talent tier was for

3 Likes