In Warcraft 3 Grom freed himself and the rest of the Horde from the grasp of the Burning Legion through the Fel, so he didn’t like it either. Doomhammer didn’t like Gul’dan or the fel. He was a Frostwolf like Durotan that supported it only to bring Gul’dan down.
The Old Horde was basically controlled by the Burning Legion and used as pawns. None of the orcs I mentioned liked the use of the Fel and him bringing Gul’dan back, the main user of the Fel, he betrayed what they believed in. The Old Horde aren’t only bloodlustful brutes, they had honor. Gul’dan did not, thus by bring him back, Garrosh did not have honor.
Is that the only thing you notice that’s different? Not that Sylvanas has no need to follow through with Orcish traditions because she’s not an orc? Did you miss that? Garrosh doing what he did is worse in Orcish eyes than what Sylvanas did because he has orcish values and traditions and then broke them by bringing back Gul’dan and betraying what his father fought for. Sylvanas has no values or traditions to follow. That’s the difference.
Either way, nowhere did I mention boobs in my first post. If I were to advocate for someone because of the way their body looked, I wouldn’t choose Sylvanas. Don’t make this a post about objectification.
Pretty much this. Dabiri was a terrible designer and systematically destroyed all the solid foundations Dustin left behind. Unfortunately, the current design team doesn’t have what it takes to undo the damage.
It very much reminds me of sc2, another project Dustin nurtured and David Kim subsequently ruined. It seems blizzard had a host of really bad designers ready to destry any good product.
In warcraft 3 he also re-enslaved himself and the rest of the Horde. Grom does whatever gives him an edge, just like Garrosh.
They had slaughter and called it honor. Honor to an Orc is whatever justifies the next war.
But she did follow through with orcish traditions. She did exactly what Garrosh and all the other Old Horde orcs did. She killed whoever she wanted to and claimed it was for honor and glory.
Sylvanas is exactly like every one of those orcish “heroes” you’re putting up on a pedestal like they’re somehow paragons of honor and virtue.
Which was the same thing Garrosh did, except he accepted that he did wrong. Much more honorable than Garrosh fleeing to save his skin. Hence why he’s a coward.
No. That’s not the case. And I’m pretty sure Honor to an Orc doesn’t include betrayal even it they do whatever gives an orc an edge.
Key word was need so she wasn’t expected to be like an orc. I’m not saying she’s a better person. Understand that. I’m just saying I liked her better as Warchief because it was cool that my favorite character was.
He didn’t accept he was wrong. He just didn’t like the consequences of being wrong and decided Mannoroth wasn’t that cool a guy as soon as he wasn’t needed to help genocide the native elves and ents.
At no point did selling your soul to whatever power was offering to ge back to killing stop being something he wanted to do. He just decided he wasn’t going to pay up.
A crackhead isn’t suddenly noble when they kill their dealer and steal their supply.
Black hand, Doomhammer, and the abovementioned Grom would all disagree.
I feel like people who say this are forgetting the entire 1st year of the xpac where respeccing was insanely punishing w/ no artifact catchup mechanic and spec-defining legendaries refused to drop for some people. Not only that, all the “new features” were just lazily borrowed from D3. I already play seasons in D3, I don’t need WoW to be D3 lite.
Just like people remember Cata as the worst xpac ever because of its final patches and Dragon Soul, people think Legion was the be-all-end-all when you could buy legendaries from a vendor (lol) at the end.
Not to mention I primarily pvp, and pvp was complete and utter trash in Legion (and BfA).
Because they did something without honor doesn’t mean they believe betrayal is honorable. In fact, Doomhammer was loyal to the Orcs and when Durotan wanted the human’s help to defeat Gul’dan, Doomhammer was upset with Durotan, just like most Orcs were. So how is betrayal okay when Garrosh does it but when Durotan does it its fine? You are contradicting yourself.
And if it weren’t a game then Sylvanas needs to pay for her crimes as well, but its a game and I have every right to like whoever I want regardless of how they look.
They teased Karabor as the alliance capital early in development and then scrapped that for Ashram which isn’t even fully built, not even canonically. Have you seen how much stuff there is still lying around?
I will never forgive them. Replacing one of the most iconic buildings with a construction site.
I think you’re missing the point. The orcish concept of honor is totally alien to any functioning definition of honor, and instead exist to justify the next genocide.
Nothing Garrosh did was dishonorable by any metric that the orcs actually use for decision making. They just called it dishonorable because it was directed at them.
Patch 6.2 destroyed WoW PvP for me, but I am guessing you played Alliance? Prior to WoD, PvP was never fully balanced, but it was decent, and you weren’t punished for not playing a specific faction or race. I PvP’d extensively in Cata and MoP, mostly in RBGs and 5v5 arenas, with a little 3v3 for variety. My main was (and still is) a tauren resto druid, and our guild was known for semi-progressive raiding (we would get a few Heroic bosses down, but never a full clear, and this was before Mythic raids) and competitive PvP, one of the very few on our server.
Horde did have an advantage in random BGs, with about a 50-55% win rate to the Alliance’s 45-50%. So Horde was “better”, but not so much so that there was no reason to play Alliance, and while BG wait times were longer for Horde, they weren’t out of control.
Enter patch 6.2, and hello broken human racial that allowed you to equip double burst trinkets. Suddenly, Alliance were winning almost 2/3’s of the battle grounds, and the entire leaderboard was nothing but human pallies and priests. All of the top PvP streamers faction changed, and the majority of the dedicated PvP playerbase followed suit. It was impossible to recruit for, or even pug, a Horde RBG team. Wait times for BGs on Alliance went through the roof, to the point Blizzard introduced Mercenary Mode in 6.22 just so someone would queue for BGs on the Horde side, even if they were just faking it to get shorter queue times.
Yeah, WoD was the end of PvP in WoW for me. Good thing I found HotS not long after, so I didn’t have to deal with the train wreck that was WoW, and could just PvE with friends there.
I played both factions fairly equally, and despite the OPness of EMFH in WoD, I only had two hooman characters, a disc priest and a combat rogue. My “main” on alliance was a nelf feral drood. Also played a fair share of waggle in the form of enhance shammy and fire mage. And a femnelf warrior that was a badass.
My horde main was a fabulous belf rogue (mut & sub), followed by a belf demo lock, femgob marks hunter & femsaken spriest. Basically I played every class and had all of them decked out in pvp gear.
I will agree Ashran left a lot to be desired in the fun dept. and was a buggy mess in the beginning, but as a gearing mechanism for pvp alts it was simply unmatched in WoW’s history, which is why I regard WoD pvp fairly highly. The fact that pvp gear was actually good in wpvp was a very welcome system as well.
I spent most of my time in Wpvp though, and that is why Legion killed the game for me. The introduction of heavy-handed sharding and loss of the WorldDefense channel ruined the game instantly. Suddenly the rivalries between myself and other wpvpers were effectively deleted, and I found myself in a world where every enemy player may as well be an npc since the likelihood of seeing them more than once was seemingly nil. Combine that with the pvp template system that removed the ability to customize stats, and rng gear lootboxes and you have what was an unforgivable change to the game in my eyes. I miss WoW, and defending the lowbies/murdering gankers in Wpvp.
I didn’t do much WPvP in WoD, as most of the people I had played with faction changed, but I had a ton of fun with WPvP in MoP. Our server saw constant battles where one faction would take over the opposite Shrine in Vale and see how long they could hold it. 40 man raids on faction capitals was common, and the FFA trinket on that one island (heck if I can remember its name without googling) was hysterical.
I do agree that the template system in Legion wasn’t very much fun, and gearing in WoD made much more sense, but for us at least, WPvP had died long before that expac hit.
I did Ashran enough to earn the talbuk mount, then … nopenopenope.
