Varian has been matched against tanks since quite a while already.
They changed it multiple times already and none was/will be perfect.
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No, not quite. When Blizzard updated the composition rules Varian was placed in the Bruiser category. On December 21st when the composition rules were reversed they reverted Varian back to being a tank in the Matchmaker rule set, but did not update him in the UI.
This is why PlanarChaos is going to argue he isnât a tank in the rule set, but he very clearly is when you queue with him. It was an undocumented change, just like the expansion happening 10 times faster was.
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Could you please provide your cite that Varian is not classified as a bruiser internally?
No. You cannot. He is classified as a bruiser, not a tank.
Like every other bruiser in the game, in an expanded search to create games more quickly and keeping quality high, bruisers will be used in lieu of tanks.
I donât see what is difficult here.
Varian is factually not considered a tank by the rules.
He is considered a bruiser and hence ends up in matches acting as a tank with relaxed rules.
While he may be essentially be a tank currently, he is in fact considered a bruiser.
here is a screenshot i took a few minutes before posting this. Notice Varian does not get the bonus exp. Hence being considered a role which is not a tank
https://i.imgur.com/qposM04.jpg
this line and everything after was edited in after post was made
Clearly you donât understand how ârelaxingâ of rules worked.
By your logic every warrior should be considered a tank. Yet, I bet if you queue as Zarya you wonât be put as the âwarrior/tankâ of the game, unless you have a very long queue. I kinda wanta play 20-30 QMs as Zarya just to prove the point now, tbh. That not all warriors are tanks even with the relaxed rules.
The relaxing clearly kept the new roles, but was willing to put bruisers up against tanks if the matchmaker favored it would result in a good game.
You remind me of the people who think that âexpanded searchâ is purely one ruleset. When in fact how the rules are relaxed changes over time. And I have that right from people on the HotS team.
I wonât share proof of that of course, without permission. But if you have a scenario where you have:
a viable tank for one team (say, ETC), and a viable support for both teams, a viable ranged assassin for both teams and two other people for each teamâŚ
If the matchmaker, say, the option of Diablo or Varian with equal MMR, the Matchmaker would always pick diablo.
As Diablo is considered a tank, while Varian is considered a bruiser, who can be matched up against tanks given the âwho winsâ is very close to 50%.
No, he is a tank again.
Go queue with him and you will quickly find out this is true.
He is always matched against a tank. I donât care that he doesnât get the Call of the Nexus bonus, when the matchmaker creates teams he is always matched against a tank even when there are no other tanks on your team. This does not happen with Sonya, Leoric, or other bruisers.
You can argue against it all you want, but it will not change reality.
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Cite?
Read (and respond?) to edits to previous post please.
Because Iâm willing to agree that âwarriorâ essentially (it should exclude Zarya) means tank with the revision to the rules at the time of editing (a day or so before start of 2019).
But the fact that Varian is classified as a bruiser not a tank in the role system is an area where at the time of this post I am 100% correct on.
No, you posted a screenshot of the Call of the Nexus when Iâve stated repeatedly the change is irrespective of the UI classification. In the UI, no, he isnât in the tank category. However, internally in the QM rule set he is treated as a tank.
Zarya?
/20characters
Zarya is sustain and is still treated as sustain⌠Iâm talking about Varian, not Zarya.
Unless actual tanks like Johanna, Muradin, or Stitches arenât tanks anymore (they are) Varian will be matched against them without any other tank on your own team.
Varian is internally being treated as a tank by the QM matchmaker, regardless of the fact he doesnât get a Call of the Nexus bonus for it.
actually, looking at some of your recent posts that talked about queue times, it seems you Are (or were) someone who assumes âexpanded searchâ at 30 seconds is the same as âexpanded searchâ at 300 seconds.
I think that the HotS team should be more clear, about how exactly the queue was expanded, but to quote someone on the team
ââŚFeedback that it could be more transparant is not unwelcome (however that transparancy may have effects itself on behavior)âŚâ
Varian in QM does not get credit for being played AS a tank even when I go play a tank Varian. For the sake of argument, why would someone in QM play a tank if theyâre not getting the XP boost that âreal tanksâ get even if Varian is a perfectly viable tank?
the whole warrior class it being treated as before the initial changes sans Zarya
Is this confusing to you?
Again, feel free to bring a cite up.
Either through digging current game code, or something else.
They are the same expansion⌠when the composition changes were first implemented it never expanded at 30 seconds. There arenât multiple tiers of search expansionsâŚ
But what does that even have to do with the fact that if you queue with Varian you will ALWAYS be matched against a REAL tank even if there are none on your side. Ergo, heâs being treated internally AS A TANKâŚ
this kind thing makes me wish that you could âopt inâ to tank varian somehow.
And have the game track if you did not pick Taunt. Hence locking you out of bonus exp for Varian. Although I think it is a very low priority (if any priority) fix/change.
Like every other bruiser?
Sadly Iâve been on a HL kick since that update, so I cannot really relate much experience personally. But Iâm pretty sure queueing as any other warrior when Tanks are getting âcall of the nexusâ exp boost with yield a result within the margins of error with varian.
No, it isnât.
Artanis, Dehaka, Leoric, and Sonya are still not treated as Tanks, ONLY Varian is after the December 21st change. All other former Bruisers are still treated internally as Bruisers and wonât be matched against a tank unless your side has one.
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cite?
/20 characters
]
edit: I should note (and will edit tomorrow, it is time to sleep now) I should/will edit the post regarding absolute of all warriors being tanks.
But either bring proof of this, or go home. B/c before the new MM rules were introduced, it was âa warrior is a warriorâ
I canât cite an UNDOCUMENTED changeâŚ
Just queue as them for several matches and you can figure it out on your own.
Granted, I look at my own teamâs comp, then ask if other Warrior characters in the team is fine being sole tank or if they would like the insurance of me having a Taunt and Shield Wall, and Iâve gotten either answers, but I usually queue in QM as Varian, assuming I will be picking up the main (or sole) tank job as a Taunter and come ready to block shots if I see a Nova (who frequently goes Triple Tap off experience).
No it wasnâtâŚ
Zarya was a Sustain and D.Va, Dehaka, Leoric, Artanis, Rexxar, and Sonya were NOT treated as tanks well BEFORE the composition updates. The only one who was changed WITH the composition updates was Varian and not unsurprisingly Varian is the ONLY ONE affected by the undoing of the Composition updates.
Whatâs funny is that there was a time where varian was considered a DPS in QM, and single handedly ruined QM until it was changed to have him be seen as a tank because it turned into one sided slaughterfests in favor for the team that had varian
Most abilities do magic damage, even for non-mage characters. Hence shieldwall is vastly superior to warbringer in almost all cases.