Thanks, Vekkul.
twennie karacters
would love to test it, but dont have all week to wait in q
Maybe it is just time to re-think the entire underlying formula of a MOBA?
I mean the whole genre is based on escalating mistakes. You lose someone -> you canât effectively teamfight -> youâll lose material -> you fall behind in XP -> youâre in a worse position next teamfight. With rising death timers, each time this happens itâs a bigger drawback, and each time you end up in an even worse spot for the next time you need to make it count.
The XP changes from the PTR do counteract this - so I think theyâre overall good - but I can see why itâs annoying/confusing that taking forts and keeps is actually a drawback.
What I would propose is maybe undoing a few core concepts entirely, based on how they are ultimately a negative element of MOBAs. I would:
- Scale player power and give talents based on time passed, not XP gained. Eliminate XP entirely, yes. Roughly 1 minute ~= 1 level. Maybe even drop numerical scaling wholly.
- Knocking out the enemy core is an instant win. Otherwise, after 25 minutes the game ends and whoever has more forts+keeps or alternatively in Towers who has more health left wins. If itâs a draw, have a sudden death round.
- Return to using ammo but reduce the ability of player-created pets to soak ammo. The idea being however that after a while minion waves become super lethal to forts in particular.
- Remove death timer scaling. You die, youâre out for 5 seconds + walk back.
I mean in the end, what would we lose? Nothing much, other than the current big focus on snowballing matches. However match length would - actually hard- - cap at 25 minutes still, and itâd be a close match until the end because you could, much like in football, score a bunch of âgoalsâ in the final few minutes as a comeback. Or not and the enemy team keeps a tight grip on the playing field and prevents you from catching up.
Suggestion: Make the âTeam XPâ to âIndividual XPâ instead. This will fix alot of issues currently were having in the Game.
Hello guys im a Very old player who started HOTS since the beginning of HOTS alpha days, so ive been playing HOTS nonstop since then. im an Avid HOTS/Blizzard Fan so i really care and love the game so im just suggesting so⊠yeah no flame pls ty! just wanted HOTS to improve as a Game!
Pros:
- Rewards Good players who can dominate their lane.
- Gives Early Kills/Ganks more âVALUABLEâ since right now problem we have is people can just die off early and theres nothing to get punished.
- Lane Importance. With these Changes we can feel that Lane really important.
- More âSTRATEGIESâ since team will designate what hero they will designate to a specific Lanes
- Difference of Each games (Lets face it HOTS is designed where you are âPre-DETERMINED what things to do each mapsâ which makes HOTS feels like every game is the same game you played before thats why People get burned out too fast)
Cons: - New Mechanics. (Lets face it people doesnât want change]
- Will not âPURELY TEAMPLAYâ. *Arguement: i think it still is a Team game since the only difference is you can feel youâre strong on that Game where you control your âIndividial Snowballâ
- may Tweak other hero
- Alot of Work to Devs
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Iâm against it like and against deleting ammo of towers. But, Blizzard could just to add two buttoms : ââ Fast searchingââ , ââ Searching by rolesââ.
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Why is this thread not pinned?
I am shocked and I do not believe what I read. Designers, what do you know about your game? Do you understand what this game consists of, do you know its rules?
What you have been doing for a few months, we players have broken down in a few minutes and completely overthrown in the next few hours.
The game is good in terms of mechanics, you do not have to change anything in mechanics.
Snowball appears because:
- for 7 months you randomly distributed the master rank
- you create new, very versatile and difficult to counter heroes
- in reworks, you are shifting the power of heroes to lategame.
- Alterack Pass map
- the game does not educate new players
I have about 10,000 games played matches. I play all modes, I am interested in HGC and I have been involved in the Polish forum almost from the beginning.
Here are my suggestions after reflection:
- Forget about these changes that you propose.
- Experience from buildings must be gradually reduced, but not removed, it is too drastic. At the beginning, reduce by 25%.
- You can experiment with mercenaries but without exaggeration.
- Start to look at a different map individually, above all the Alterack Pass (base and camps of mercenaries, bosses) and GoT
- Make a decent tutorial for new players, with rewards.
PS: I remind you that in a month there will be a tournament of nations. In Europe, we highly value this event.
7 Likes
This stupid, blind arrogance is everything wrong with the community in a nutshell.
6 Likes
I was looking at my ptr replays and I notice that anti snowball almost works too well in certain maps.
The example being curse hallow. The final cap being enemy structures disabled and minions reduced to 1 hp.
Currently if compare the game back to back, curse allows you to gain some sort of exp advantage, that being the power spike in the forts, and towers also provide a healthy dose of exp to add to it. You are rewarded for curse final cap in exp.
In PTR, itâs the exact opposite. Because the forts and towers provide so little, youâll receive only the amount of exp in towers. The anti snow ball works, but a little too well. So well, that enemy recevies extra exp from the curse.
The reason being is the exp is within the minions. When the team caps curse, they are denied that exp from ally minions pushing in ward, and leads that healthy minion directly to the enemy.
In short, you just gave your laning minions to the enemy on a silver platter by caping curse. Free enemy exp because the minions are worth more than the strategic structures. All while youâre own minons clear the 1 hp minions denying your team the exp.
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Blizzard gave in to another no-clue demand from the community (aka reddit) again. They donât know what they are talking about and yet you decide to give up. This move of yours will accelerate the bleeding of player base even further, instead of stopping it.
EDIT:
If you think it will make the game more fun to play and more fun to watch then do it. All these threats from pros and players saying that they will leave if this XP change goes through, just let them. Maybe they are the ones who are bad for the game all along. Their love of easy oppressive win by snowballing might be the main reason why any potential players never stick around.
Also, you need to admit that HGC is boring to watch. I fell asleep quite often watching it, even at the grand final at Blizzcon 2018. Poor commentators have to hype it up every single game. The team that has levels and talents behind runs away like a dog, not contesting, doing absolutely nothing, just soak XP and hope the leading team make a mistake. This is how you play HotS. Pros show us how to play it. Fun to watch? Absolutely not. Fun to play? Certainly not. Do you think average players know to play like this? Nope, they donât know anything about this so they fight at every objective and lose every single time, then blame their teammates why they were laning, feeling frustrated and quit, never to touch HotS again.
Ironically, the argument of these disagreeing players is that anything you do early game does not matter, why playing early game at all, but at the same time they conveniently ignore the same situation we currently have, anything you do when you are behind does not matter why playing the game after 5 minutes at all.
You are the developers. If you think any decision will make HotS more fun to play and more fun to watch then do it. Like laws, if you want your state to become a major automobile hub, then you lower the taxes to all businesses involving automobile in your state. If anyone leaves because of it, then it is because they are not what your state wants.
Remember Diablo? It took the community two years to realize that he was OP. And you believe all of these bias tuned-to-the-only-answer-they-want everything-else-ignored-and-disregard nonsense reddit spewing at you after less than a week of PTR?
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Hi Dylan.
My suggestion would be to decrease the xp gained from destroying structures, like 50% and compensate by increasing the Merc xp by 50%, the minions xp by some reasonable % and lastly increase Heroes kills xp as well as the underdog bonus to keep same game length.
No catapults spawn on fort.
I think that if the catapults are not strong enough it will always be a detriment, but if they are strong enough it feels bad having to deal with them so soon as the first fort destroyed.
This way you can still have snowballs when one team is destroying the other one, but will avoid having too many of these as soaking will be more valuable, while not hurting too much split pushing strategies, punishing teams that die too much, and letting them regain a lot of momentum when managing to win a fight down in levels
What is concerning to me is that effect was glaringly obvious to me as a plat player just by reading the notes.
Not sure why it took the PTR for someone to see that on the dev team.
3 Likes
in practice it rewards the losing team with an unreasonable amount of xp, losing the 3 forts to objectives early will not cost you much, but due to the new mechanics and change in game play priorities, you can easily stay on par with the winning team when it comes to levels and talents - this feels bad for the winning side because as game time progresses, it allows the losing side to many attempts (without proper punishment for failing) to make that âplayâ and turn the game around, and end it.
snowballing is inevitable consequence of losing, it it feels rewarding for the winning team, good example of how this could be avoided, in order to give the losing side more opportunities to recover (without indirectly punishing the winning side) is the addition of armor to the core - similar how it is done with the alterac valley map, where each Keep adds a % damage reduction buff to the General.
6 Likes
From how I saw the changes, they may as well have just deleted the outside towers and just have one line of towers before the core.
It just makes the outside towers seem unnecessary
yes what he wrote is arrogated but it comes from a place of concern, this change isnât the way to fix the problem with snowballing, they just less punish poor play, you know what i have a better idea how about no soaking and no exp, the lvl of both team is timed and every min both team lvl up, and to make people take forts the enemy team structures just take random damage for each building they lost
donât get me wrong snowballing and comeback is a major problem but just giving people exp will just make early game a lot less impact, even Trikslyr who worked for hots or something said the changes arenât good,
but what do we know we dont even have phones 
In going over your past replies, Iâm just reading knee-jerk comments and a blatant desire to use the term, âdunning-krugerâ out of context. This is a forum designed for communication regardless of stance.
Perhaps next post you could add explanations rather than just a 1 liner that hints at the fallacy called, appeal to authority. Or should we just bow down to our glorious and generous game designers?
Surely they can do no wrong, right?
Here, let me start your reply to save you some time:
âI am literally shaking right nowâŠâ
âI canât evenâŠâ
âDo you even knowâŠâ
etc.
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Said it better than I. You also understand the exact problem. I feel this is likely to happen to the lower ranks.
Who is âweâ? Are you pretending to be part of the dev team?
âPeopleâ huh? I like the PvE style of Blackheartâs. Iâm sure there are plenty of others that do as well. Please donât make sweeping generalizations based on your limited observations and the opinions this tiny part of the player base that posts on the forums.
The phrase is âlo and behold.â Get the language right if you are going to try to insult people with it.
Late game. âLategameâ is not a word. Once again, learn actual English first. Then try to act intelligent with it.
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Well, one positive of these changes is that thereâll be no reason to clear all forts/keeps in vs AI for XP, which is probably where Iâll stay for a good long time while I watch this storm pan out.
I personally dislike the changes and what it will mean for balancing heroes and what itâll mean for the early game. I donât play other mobas because I donât like how boring the early laning stages are⊠I donât want to hang back and farm minions for over half the gameâŠI like games to be exciting and action packed and strategic in regards to pushing down forts rather than pointless or potentially harmfulâŠ
I also donât like the sylvanas rewok, or any rework that fundamentally changes heroes I enjoy. I just overall am really bummed about this gameplay update, just like I was last year. But I suppose Iâll still be here trucking on and complaining about it for the years to come 
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Gotta love newbie posters. Where ya silenced or do you just have no guts to talk on your main account?
Devs do not want more snowball, simple as that, their goal is to remove that.
But I suppose you donât care, since you arenât addressing that at all and more of a peg at me for grammar, thanks highschool english teacher.
Terrible followup post.
Wait for itâŠ
DAMN the hypocrisy! Not even a filler sentence inbetween, straight to it.
Posting a thread from these forums wonât do me any good convincing you but itâs been shown on almost every poll that it was one of the least popular maps, right next to previous hanamura and haunted mines.
Nty.
Didnât know I would be graded for my forum grammar.
Look, buddy, you have a lot of opinions, this post youâre making to mock me, contains almost none of that pertaining to the exp changes or to better it, how bout be the better person, drop it, stop being pessimistic and post an idea or thought pertaining to the thread instead of yours truly.