Considering this has more than likely been worked on for months now like he says no I don’t consider it rushing, I consider it a bad choice that they arrived at after all that time but it wasn’t rushed. They now have the chance to fix the mistake with feedback.
Probably the last reply I give you since you seem kind of like you are mainly just looking to be antagonistic.
Hmm, I wonder who’s reminding me that with…
I love this, i have not played the new XP changes yet but its great to see that blizzard is listening to the community! keep it up!
Wow, you still believe what they say?
I mean thats kinda the point. Her “playstyle” was: deal mediocre damage, make map balance much harder, while being nothing more then a win more hero. she was nothing. she was like butcher, any other pick would get the same result. Now she is a actual character, with respectable damage, while keeping her anti structure playmaking style, but not being only viable in gold games and below as a split push bot.
Well, since you made own thread, I guess there is no reason to make new one. 2 things that basically have to happen, if you plan to do these changes in whatever form.
1. Exclude keeps from any xp nerfs, even better, increase xp given.
2. Catas dont push the lane without hero nearby. (they freeze in front of fort/keep defending your buildings).*
Even better, imo, would be different solution. Forget about catapults or any extra damage dealing minion for that matter. Replace that with minions that help pushing heroes (in the end, being on the other side of map is risky). Extra armor/hp regen and so on.
*It would be worth consideration if catapults stopped behind the fort/keep, helping against enemy objective. Since this would mean increased range, they would not get melted by accidental AoE. Also sieges would be fun 
Good, now Bring Back QM
Quick match should be quick not wait 10 minutes for an “ideal” comp.
Apples and oranges. If you didn’t play syl this way on live then I’m pretty sure you’re not playing syl optimally.
Thanks lord pessimistic.
Insightful feedback.
That just makes the game more snowbally, we’re trying to prevent that.
People don’t like the PVE style of blackhearts.
Oh woe and behold, our lord and savior pessimism.
Then why are you commenting on the forums.
Community = More players. Different servers and not lan. Patch going out is not the same as the patch that is internal.
Look, buddy, there’s a lot of complicated stuff that goes into patching and updating a game.
How bout just suggest stuff that might actually work instead of shoot everything the devs are doing down. A lot of people simply say no because it is change, the constant mixed feedback is confusing and stressful when you have a lot of hot colds and yes nos.
How so? Early game wins should be rewarded and punish heroes that take time to spin up like abathur or azmo. Being unstoppable lategame is not fun to the team who is unable to beat out lategame heroes.
Well if I were to give feedback, I’d recommend centering the maps around making the objectives more powerful or mercs more powerful so that you’d have to balance split pushing and making aggressive plays around hitting forts if you want any sort of momentum. The team that’s too split will often falter at the objective or taking a keep anyhow.
Overall it’s quite the dilemma. You want players to be rewarded for hitting keeps and forts but at the same time you want the other team to not be instantly out of the game for losing it.
What if instead of the early catapult, a fort destroying would provide a passive exp generation bonus.
So every 1 fort taken on 3 lane map would give 100% passive exp generation and every fort on 2 lane map would give 150%. In this scenerio being pushed hard with the first objective would not give the opponent a massive exp boost, putting a losing team in great disadvantage and making them relying on enemies mistakes only, but would put a timer on them instead. The losing team would be on a clock, having a time to counter play opponents and taking some structures on their own, closing an exp generation gap completely or at least partially. If they would not be able to, that would mean that they are out-skilled. The passive exp generation would eventually put winning team so high that they can end the game quickly, being rewarded for being better for the entire game.
The early catapult is very unintuitive, giving an illusion of having advantage while being cut of the exp at the same time. When a good tactic is to let the enemies take structures, the game becomes illogical and not self-explanatory and it is easier to pray on casual players while increasing the frustration of hardcore players paired with them.
These are my thoughts on the upcoming changes. I hope this will help.
Just keep the exp changes without giving catapults and the patch should accomplish it’s goals of slowing the snowball without outright rewarding the losing team for losing.
I don’t think you need to go out of your way to give forts tactical value, because the enemy forts being down IS tactical value. But if you do want to go that route…do it after christmas break and not right before. Last year around this time the game was in the worst state it’s ever been, because changes broke the game and nobody was there to fix it.
perhaps a “tank minion” that draws fire and has more hp, similar to gnolls on alterac, but pults spawn when the keep dies
Can you please also reconsider the radius reduction changes which will have a big impact on body blocking? I play a lot of melee DPS and tanks and this is very important to me.
More or less.
1 thing that definitely shouldnt happen is extra damage that will shove the lane on its own. It should help heroes around it in w/e form.
I think you should keep this changes and buff kills xp and mercenaries captured xp.
I’m participating in a discussion, and you should too instead of defending a billion dollar company. I’m doing so in a civilized manner and they’ve already had enough feedback to realize how gameplay is affected in a negative manner.
You can stop mass quoting and write down a suggestion yourself, doing nothing more but derailing the conversation here.
Sometimes snowball is good, these changes give the pushing team no experience lead and spoon feed all the experience to the losing side, literally freezing the waves close to their base for safe pick off.
Maybe play the game yourself so you can see how backwards the change feels. This has a potential of a trainwreck and the forums will implode from it. PTR can further be updated and left online for people to keep play testing while they leave the change out for the planned live version for now.
Because the holiday season is close, everyone will leave the office and the game will be a mess for another month, just look at what happened with wc3, patching on a Friday afternoon, recipe for disaster and a dumpster fire waiting for you on Monday.
yeah, i think the minion would do little damage, so low damage but it gives the other minions a few more hits, so it wont solo a fort unsupervised, but still creates a threat, working in a similar way to ammo drain but with actual counter strats
More events more quest per days, and the game run smoothly.
the internal tests wouldn’t start with the ‘answer’ in the first place, but would spend time on various options and variations to try to deal with the gameplay concerns of snowballing. The numbers involved (ie, half for towers, none for forts, adjustments to passive rate, etc) would be involved on those tests to get a feel for the ‘right pace’ for comeback potential.
Once something has left the variations phase, then its easier for a different group to exploit problems that are intentionally looking to do so. One of the replay segments I’ve seen that wanted to showcase the issue of the xp change (particular to the catapults) had the team focus a fort on the one lane that didn’t have merc activity and they otherwise didn’t put any pressure back on that lane again; the other side then would only partially soak the lane to ‘freeze’ it at intervals because the lack of pressure there (or elsewhere really) meant they were ‘safe’ to do so.
so the notion of ‘pointing out all the problems’ sometimes comes from staged replays where the action and response of the sides shown allow the problem to manifest itself as an exploit of the perceived meta: teams have to be willing to act in certain ways to facilitate certain problems. If a lane had the early cata + merc + objective on the focused lane, then that’s threatening early keeps, and not just picking off a fort or so for enabling passive soak as teams stand back to watch.
Has anyone spoken out on the issue of current catapults pushing out the lane as a concern? Granted, there is a difference in map control and movement on earlier game vs mid/late game when catapults are expected to show, but even then, a number of games/teams wouldn’t pass up an early fort on those games despite the spawn of catapults then pushing that wave out.
So part of all the ‘glaring issues’ is because playstyles shift to accomodate the issue they want to showcase instead of using it directly to their advantage. The response is more forced than organic in its presentation. That isn’t to say it isn’t a problem, but rather, I’m just addressing the question you pose above: some teams are showing it as a problem because they allow it to be as such.
The disconnect is that we’ve also been play testing. Devs play test a different game as they make changes. What we get is a bunch of skipped work on our part. We then do work and find more faults. Then the game goes into rework mode. A bunch of progress gets made over several iterations of the game as changes are tried and tested. Then we get another end result. We’re basically never playing the same game as Blizzard except for that brief period between launched update and when they start testing the first change.
Btw minions do actually pretty good siege damage. As long as my numbers are not out of date:
melee - 20 (x3)
wizard - 17
archer - 40 (x3)
BUT, afaik, minions have damage multiplier against buildings (x3). Even if you add something so simple like extra minion giving 50 armor to minions around it, the tower shot sponge is amazing. And that means more damage from minions too. Obviously, only if hero is nearby.
One good thing about the catapult idea is the cooldown actually. Its supposed to be 90 seconds. So even if there is some “snowball” threat, its delayed as hell. Btw, here you have splitpush buff 