Many people here agree that her sustain is out of wack. How about changing the life leach so that it only works against enemy heroes?
With this she can still have the ability to stay in the fight a bit longer due to baseline life leach vs heroes but once she is swatted away you wont see her again so quickly because she wouldn’t be able to AA minions for health. Right now she will just go AA a few minions and regain much of her health and be back in the fight. Maybe even buff her damage a bit with this change if needed.
This way she cannot just blink back to some minions and recharge her health so easily because right now it sucks to swat a Tracer away only for her to return 5 seconds later because she AA a few minions for health.
I don’t see a problem with her live leech. Its not like she has a full health bar after a wave of minions. Its about 20% of her health that she gets back plus the regen globes. Its honestly not too much. Tracer, although not as much as before, is an aggressive hero. She shouldn’t have to hearth or use the fountain after every engage.
Well, the certain level 4 talent almost nobody picks and the certain level 7 talent everyone wants to pick has a shocking synergy. Combine that with the level 13 talent everyone says is busted with full stacks and you get:
24x10x1.7x0.3x1.04^14 = 211 health back every 2 seconds at level 14.
Given that at the same level Tracer has 2303hp it’d take about 17 seconds to recover your HP from 10% to 90%. That’s pretty respectable and if somebody can stall you can re-enter the teamfight for a second go still.
Mind the fact it requires 3 charges of Blink, all 6 stacks of Untouchable and you not missing L&L. In addition the time spent moving from objective to lanes is not included.
The reality is that very few people pick Leeching Rounds and even less would have all 3 charges of Blink fresh after just nearly dying during a teamfight. Untouchable being charged also depends on whether you are on the roll or not. A more sane formula would include Is That A Health Pack? And trying to pick up two regen globes quick for 36% health because your AA based sustain is:
24x10x1.5x0.15x1.04^14 =93.5hp every 2 seconds
Which would need some 38 seconds of non-stop auto-attacking to get you the desired 80% health back. So a more sane alternative would be to go globe hunting while also AA-ing up a bit then hurry back into the teamfight. 8 clips of AA + two globes get you anbout 68% of your life back which is usually enough to alleviate pressure from healers. Still, it likely puts you away from the teamfight for a good half minute. So if the enemy doesn’t press their advantage of your absence then it’s their fault.
I’m going on the assumption that you don’t play Tracer at all.
Tracer does not have talents that increase her life leech. She has one talent that does so. And no one picks “Leeching rounds” because it sucks. It’s one of the worse talents in the game.
Again, show that what you’re saying is true. Everything you said in the OP was wrong.
I haven’t checked these numbers, but there are three issues I can see.
It requires you to pick the worse talent ever.
If your team can stall a fight for seventeen seconds!, then they are so far beyond the enemy team that they don’t need you.
Why would I want a hero in my team that requires me to stall for them for seventeen seconds? At that point. Just draft Raynor and have him press E.
Yeah, which I would not expect to happen in QM. Especially the L&L part ,and the not dying part.
Actually, it’s fairly simple to get 6 stacks of Untouchable. You just have to win 2-3 teamfights in a row and not die in the process. Just being near gives you an assist which counts towards Untouchable so it can add up. The matter is consistency. You aren’t guaranteed to have 6 stacks at all times. It’s just a winmore mechanism which makes it harder for the enemy to turn the tables.
And yeah, I basically described a spherical cow with the first example. It was meant to demonstrate the theoretical maximum impact of self-heal but I also torpedoed the argument by pointing out how unlikely it is. A more optimal build and receiving 36% health from globes is more reasonable but you’re still down for quite a while so it only helps if the teamfight turns into a "team skirmish with lots of breathers.
Yeah ,I know how untouchable works. But it pretty much amounts to winning the game. So it’s like “Pick this talent if you know you will win”. At least it gives you the blink range now.
Though I find I pick Pulse generator in all games unless I don’t have a healer.
Leeching rounds requires a heroic target and has no affect on none heroic targets, also its her worst talent on that tier, pulse generator does a better job and that requires a hero.
You can make a fair point with her level 7 but that’s about it in the early game when they’ve moved an entire tier of damage early.
Ricochet and Untouchable, sure but past that point you’ve reached end game so healing from minions does not matter during that phase and winning team fights is more important unless its a QM game where these rules don’t matter much cus fiasco 101.
Tracer losing a fight can sustain out of a lane sure but she’s not going to do anything by herself against a team pushing to penalize the other side after losing the fight even if peeling off the minion wave tanking the tower shots she can’t because she’s exposing herself and of course she’s basically automatically in range of any ranged assassins, especially AA heroes (minus obvious certain heroes I don’t need to mention).
IMO they could always start in nerfing her sustain in general, I’m open for it, like a lot and I’ve discussed why I hate them in general
They could start by nerfing her general sustain by 5%, entirely, that’s 33% off, massive value, and you can balance from that point forward.
Though as I always kept saying, this rework decision of self sustain will only make her much harder to balance than the previous iteration.
Self reliant Heroes without strong enablers are easier to balance than Heroic synergies.
Since Tass is assassin, no Tracer enableing, and Aba, Medivh or Zarya doing little on Tracer cuz her lifesteal is so low, I think she’s easier to finetune now than before and she needed that selfsustain since her low hp (and nerfed dmg).
Admittedly I don’t play trace much so thanks for the clarifications, maybe my suggestion isnt the solution.
I made this thread based mostly on playing against her alot lately and it seems she can deal damage leave hit some minions and come back for more. I’m not taking about full heals though as some of you are thinking. She will come in with full health, damage you and leave with half health go hit some minions for a few seconds and come back again at 75% health ect.
Does not change much in the position of hypercarry, which is what she was picked for previously on top of the burst, she deals less damage sure but she has all the necessary sustain on top of the main healer, Malf will still be an effective pick with her as far as I can see it.
The wording her confuses me, were all of these S tier or Tass only according to NotParadox?
Is it though? I mean i see it happening quite often. Somehow she is gaining life quickly out of fights. Iv seen her AA minions and gain a good potion of health. Maybe my percentages are off but its not insignificant healing she is getting.
