Top 5 worst ults and worst talents in the game?

General Discussion
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So I’ll quickly define worst : Leading to little to no benefit, taken at the cost of a talent that’s actually good, high risk low reward, leading to low winrates compared to others.

Here’s my list :
Ultimates

  1. Rexxar’s bear ult. The bear does almost no damage, it’s garbage. It dies in seconds. Increasing it’s damage is just laughable compared to boars that can engage/disengage and save from a bad situation leading to a loss or allow a good engage leading to a win, especially with roots at 20. I’d say it’s THE worst ult in the game.

  2. Tychus drakken laser. On paper it seems not too bad, until you realise how abysmally low hp it has and that it can’t outrange forts (or barely, you often place it in range.). How often have you seen a drakken placed for it to be destroyed in less than 2s literally and just not get any value? Plus, it’s static, has low range. How often have you seen a drakken placed, enemies move 2m away and it’s now useless? Compare to odin that outranges forts, allows for decent aoe/waveclear, has a super long range shot to finish targets and provides armor + unstoppable on cast to protect from some things… Owch.

  3. Anub’s losecusts. That ult’s damage is laughable, and the sustain it provides is so low it can barely outheal minion damage, a lili autoattacking is already more damage than you heal. And the 20 it gets is absolutely horrendously weak compared to fast return/getting75% damage reduc/ getting a cocoon bonus damage and duration for annoying targets. Try it, go to practice mode, use locusts in a minion wave, and count how long it takes to actually kill them. It’s laughable. Instead, you could have a cocoon that can cancel abilities, enable engages/combos, peel for your team mates and possibly save the game. (Or die in seconds, but still much better than losecusts.)

  4. Rain of dumbstruction for guldan !
    So, on the one hand, you get this amazing easy to use cc, that can lower armor, that deals decent damage, hits a large area, can single handedly win games, your only form of peel on a no escape character… And on the other you get rain of bronze ! IF you are lucky, and I insist on IF, it can maybe kill a minion. It will rarely hit, when it does, it often hits the full hp targets rather than the low hp you’d like to finish (and would with horrify !), it does… very average siege, not good at clearing mercs either, long cooldown too… At 20, same issue, even with the 90% slow, it rarely helps. Maybe you’ll hit once, or twice. Noob guldans pick this, see the damage go up (fake damage not leading to kills or anything meaningful) and think omg me so stronk me big stats. Avoid the rain.

  5. Falstad’s gust ! Just kidding, that one’s like the best in the game at 20 with 5s stun XD
    The 5th place doesn’t have any real HORRIBLE ults like the four previous jokes, but I’d argue for leoric’s march. It’s not exactly bad, but it means you don’t get access to an autowin button at lvl 20. Getting a decent silence cage at 20 is just an instant win, place yourself at the entrance, press E to become unmovable and voila, your team will melt them and there’s nothing they can do. Compare to march that… well, does a bit of damage. I’d say it’s a bad pick. I’d tie it with Karazim’s 7 palm strike that is next to useless when you hit just 2 or more targets in terms of damage, compared to an ult that can save a team mate and restore full hp. Keep the hard carry on your team alive, he’s worth 100000 times more than your lousy damage ult will ever be in terms of damage and kill potential.

What’s your list?

As for talents the clear obvious worst talent…
Ana’s lvl 1 shrike quest ! That thing is hard to stack, provides almost no healing benefit over a already low healing spell… and that’s it. Even at 200 stacks, the healing provided is laughable. And to get this fantastic “benefit”, you lose out on 2 good talents. Never, ever, ever pick this thing.

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It depends if the talent is picked in a coordinated environment or not.
Warlord’s Challenge, Sanctification and Graviton Surge aren’t the hot, but have potential.
Bestial Wrath, Bellowing Roar and Longboat Raid! are hot garbage.

I second Vampiric Rounds.
Mention to Aba’s Locust build.

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Pylon Overcharge. You need to have your pylons setup before fight and good luck with that cause unless your team is backing you up and/or the enemy is playing badly, it rarely happens without dying. I’ve found way more value in Null Gate even if though it’s the less popular ult.

Purifier Beam and Apocalypse, while both can do meaningful impact, there are chances of both of them getting avoided.

I think RoD is universally agreed to be one of the worsts in the game.

Talents: I agree about Vampiric Rounds too, Biotic Enhancements (when the other two Nade talents aren’t picked), Probius’ level 7 talents aside from Tower Defense, Leeching Rounds and Flames of Sulfuron.

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INQUISITORS BLOODY NO GOOD PRAYER
ENOUGH SAID
Tychus and tracers lv1 increase range
wow a whole 1 to 1.1 increase in range with this range you can now… STILL chase enemies because they fluctuate in and out of range
Ana’s lv16 movement speed dart
two CC removal tools and I see people picking this one like helllllooooo
Nazeebo’s thing of the deep
I’m not exactly sure why one might pick this one over the other too maybe for pokers perhaps? oh scratch that Nazeebo in general can go suck a jelly fish

lastly I would like some sort of change for zagara’s baneling talents because it doesn’t quite… do anything

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On the A.I side of life Zagara’s level 7 Bile Drop talent is worthless. Prior to taking it, the A.I will not so much as move an inch from the ability’s landing zone.

BUT THE MOMENT YOU CLICK THAT LEVEL 7 TALENT THEY ALL SUDDENLY BECOME NEO AND THAT SKILL IS NOW A BULLET.

Without cc, you will not get a single hit in against A.I above Recruit. They will dodge it before the animation becomes visible.

Bubble Hearth. Yes, I am going there. For a hero who is basically a heavy support that either improves herself or her teammates Bubble Hearth does not fit into Yrel’s modus operandi nor does it do much but save her from getting sent into time out. If it is picked, it is because that Yrel thinks its funny.

Whitemane’s health and mana talent at level 1. Congratulations, your health and mana bar become slightly thicker. You are a budget Nazeebo.

Malthael’s Tormented Souls heroic. Ya know, this heroic was snazzy waaaaay back in the day when Malthael’s aa didn’t cleave, it gave armor, and…half a dozen other things.

It’s a beer muscles heroic. It gives the Malthael player the false hope of diving in and being able to do something when their about as durable as a wet paperbag. Only to sit there four seconds later, confused, thinking to themselves “That’s it?” with the enemy either just walking away or Malthael sitting in timeout with a dunce hat atop of their head.

Gul’dan’s Rain of Destruction. Just have the meteors randomly spawn in different neon colors and have Darude’s Sandstorm play while the animation is going. It’ll still be pretty worthless, but at least it would be entertaining.

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I would say take it back but it’s accurate

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Nova Tripple Tap. Can get blocked by nearly everything.
Meme laser on Artanis. You wont hit anyone with that laser unless they are frozen in place or stunned for more than 5 sec.

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My top 5 (Ult edition):

  1. Both Deathwing Ults: Burn Beneath my Shadow (Cataclysm) - not very exciting. They should add a DOT dmg aspect. Bellowing Roar (fear) is better IMO, but they should make it instant, and available when DW lands (not affected by the global ability cd after landing.)
  2. TLV - Long boat raid - It’s been quite a while that people have been saying this ult is just underpowered. I miss the early days of Viks when this was the OP pick. They should find a happy medium on dmg or make the mortar stun for 1 sec or something.
  3. Raynor - Raynor’s Raiders - Too easily killed, dmg not worth it. There are many ways you can fix this like adding more dmg, a stun with long cd, armor reduction on enemy…just a few ideas.
  4. Dehaka - Adaptation - Needs a completely new Ult replacement. Dehaka already has healing he can store with his D talent - Essence Collection.
  5. Anduin - Lightbomb - It just misses too often. Even when you are in a group with coms its tough to get the timing right consistently. You really need an extremely well coordinated team to take advantage of this ult.
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I don’t think anything can top Gul’dan’s Rain of Destruction. Because this Ultimate can do nothing but look cool and that’s it.
I’m also not a fan of the Gambit talents, which sound strong in theory but sometimes look different in practice…

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Odin actually has horrible wave clear. And has less single target damage than Tychus.

Yes it is, that Heroic is teh suxorz!

I nominate Malthael and Tormented Souls. Ult was created when he didn’t have cleaving AA. Why would I need help spreading my trait? And why would I want to be in the middle of the enemy Team with the squishiest bruiser in town?

Runner up. Artanis Purifier Beam.

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based on the OP definition, some of these aren’t candidates for ‘worst’ :stuck_out_tongue:

For my take, I do agree with performance drop – if a talent is picked less, it should have a ‘higher’ rare due to conditions or skills needed for it to shine – but I think some talents may only be lackluster in their approach, and not the ‘worst’ for being worse compared to a popular pick. ie, some heroics are visual scapegoats that are easy to blame, but harder to notice the value.

  • Anub locusts have been faulted for years, but generally are described as being used correctly, or taken when cocoon is rendered useless instead. If locust hits 8 or more targets, that’s an Ancestral of healng returned.

  • Gul’dan random rain gets faulted when people toss it at air, and are surprised it hits ‘nothin’. Basic ‘skillshot’ tip is to aim from a position that value is gotten even if the primary target dodges, gets screened, etc etc. The heroic’s aoe is arguably too large, but if the intended area has that many targets to hit, then it gets value. Qm/ranked tend to rely on winning teamfights to get objectives to push, but aram is prone to volley-fire no-man’s land where long-ranged abilities siege forts down, and in that context, the aoe can get some value provided people aren’t expecting it to finish off a lone hero running through it.

My 5 heroics:

  1. Longboat Raid:

it’s less an ‘extra healthbar’ and just a liability that reduces the viking’s survivability, contribution, and recovery. Removing the self-stun, at least at 20, would help, but it still serves a similar gimmick to ‘Play again’.

  1. Furnace Blast:

Kinda surprised this wasn’t in the OP as is. It doesn’t do much, and it contributes to bad butchers playing that much worse with not using it well.

  1. Beast Wrath:

it’s a summoner buff cuz if dev’s made rex summon another critter, he’d be TLV instead. Maybe if misha had boosted monster damage, this could make her king of taking raced objectives and not just control points :thinking:

  1. Kerrigan’s Maelstrom:

Maelstrom has been rendered useless in Kerri’s current kit imo. Ultralisk can get similar damage (the baked in stun does wonders for setting up her combo,_ can soak a few kits, and isn’t reliant on hitting 4 heroics to last ‘forever’. Maelstrom suffers from reduced Q range, no sprint active, getting shut-off by certain effects (Kerri’s own chrysalis stops maelstrom early) and a number of other issues.

  1. Crystal Aegis // Resurrect

They’re both single-target effects that stall the ally into a position that could be punished by the enemy team or ruin what the ally was attempting to do. I know I dislike having them used on me at particular times, and I don’t think they’re quite the right tools to help auriel do better than ‘win more’ without them.

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For the laser to be good you need E build with E that slows and reduce CD on E, then you can permaswap someone in place and slow them and the laser hits them non stop.

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Poor Misha. Would making her unstoppable be OP? At 12 seconds, maybe, but I think it makes sense and so in line with the flavor to have an unstoppable bear coming at you.

7 Sided Strikes isn’t just for the damage. Aside from isolating single targets, it offers versatility because it drops damage/focus on you, which is important as a front liner. It forces a target switch and often gives you that extra bit of time for your CDs to recharge to disengage and heal. You’re also almost always guaranteed to have some value unlike Palm, which by the way doesn’t even come close to healing full HP (but still super useful because it makes the person untargetable as it restores their health). I still love and pick both, but again because of the versatility in strikes, I tend to pick it a bit more.

I was gonna say Glyph of Polybomb, but it’s getting changed! One of the few 20s where picking it substantially decreases your win rate. Even worse somehow is Guardian of Tirisfal, whose function is way too niche for a 20. It’s basically a talent you choose when you’re already losing. It also doesn’t help you win, it just helps you from getting pushed in. Imagine if Lava Wave only worked if Ragnaros was nearby.

2 Likes
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Except the bear tickles like a minion. Totally ignorable and useless. Also counts for stacks and quests etc.

As for 7 palm well… 9/10 it does vaguely nothing, similar to a rain of destruction on random people. And yeah, you get some cooldowns back, but so do you when you’re under the animation of the other ult even if it’s a bit less. And the healer ult can help other allies, where 7 palms only helps you alone.

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I can name only two offhand: Stukov’s single-target hand and Silvana’s single-target silence. Two of the most useless ultimates in the game, because the AoE variants do the same and even much more, while their solo counterparts do even more “damage” to their own team.

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It’s just advisable to use the crystal to prevent damage and focus, and not to save at the end of HP. This ultimate is difficult, not useless.

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I don’t think Purifier Beam is worthless. It occasionally does what it’s supposed to do, which is zone out an enemy hero. The issue is that it’s not very impactful on targets that can just ignore its damage (tanks), or high mobility targets that can quickly outpace it and go right back into where they were. PB needs to move a bit faster (still below normal speed) and have its damage massively increased (on the target only) to make it life-threatening if ignored.

Resurrect needs to be removed and replaced entirely. No competitive PvP game should have combat rez abilities. Crystal Aegis is fine though.

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the level 20 upgrade to locust is very weak and bit of a joke for a level 20 talent.

My vote off the top of my head is Maelstrom on kerrigan. Yeah it has its place maybe when combined with certain talents but overall its so weak generally speaking and its level 20 is basically never taken either.

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Butcher 16 Blood Frenzy : i don’t see the point of having such a talent when Enraged exist and is greater on absolutly everyway.

→ Enraged can be activated while doing camps or bosses, it also provides you a greater attack speed and 25% dmg reduction.

→ Blood Frenzy offer less attack speed and no armor, but a few movement speed that will be useless because the buff doesn’t last enough time.

The only way Blood Frenzy could become interresting is if they improve his duration and maybe do a synergy with his Lvl 13 Cleaver which doesn’t exist at the moment.
Additionally, Lvl 13 Cleaver should also receive an upgrade on his effective range.

I totally agree and you also forget the awful delay it has to follow your orders. It also doesn’t have a priority on heroes, if a minions is the nearest thing arround when you deploy the turret, it will focus that in priority, wasting precious seconds and forcing you to manually replace the focus. Sometimes i pick it for trolling but i mostly end up sad.

Even if you use the drill to focus on a fort/keep during all the time it last, it doesn’t make that much damages itself (at least at lvl 10).

I think to improve it, Tychus should also be able to deploy from farther, and why not improving the hitbox of that thing to help bodyblock enemis. Furthermore i think this CD is far too long to recharge, for what it is.

I certain condition it can be really really strong, if the opposite team has multiple heroes with heavy HP pools, like multiple tanks or melees or even things like Azmodan, you can melt them more effectively like that and heal yourself (with the 13).
It’s part of the AA build, there is multiple variations you can do but this one with the AA range is pretty good if the other team cannot burst you fast enough.

Odin becomes especially good at lvl 20, a single of his W can clear alone every minions that are inside, it also slow targets and also zone to force enemies to get out of it. Tychus is considered stronger in AA because he hits in percentage on heroes, but Odin will hit harder on structures than Tychus himself.

Also other thing he mentionned are true, the bonus armor + range of his AA + the range of his Q are also contributing to make it strong. This is especially effectives on squishy heroes. Besides people tend to forget that but while Odin spawns, you get an unstoppable which can be useful to block a CC.

Sure it can be considered as a total troll ult, but i’m actually using it those last past days in all my games and i’m having a lot of fun. It depends on which target you are using it, if you are focusing something squishy like a healer or a vala/ming, you can actually kill them under 1 combo (furnace, charge, Q spell).
Unironically in few situations it can also be considered as a real choice instead of using the lamb, like if the other team has too much CCs, especially multiple blinds, that will prevent you of doing anything relevant (no damages / no self healing), you can at least try to burst a target like that and damage enemies around by the same occasion. You might not survive but at least you will have done some numbers.

Now yes i think this should add something else on that ult, like a life stealing ability or maybe a slow. His level 20 is particulary useless and impossible to use in any circonstances because you have to combine a charge with that ult to expect touching something, i don’t get what we can expect to do with a 2nd furnace blast without a charge. I don’t get why that Lvl 20 doesn’t give us simply another 2nd stack on furnace blast so we could use it whenever we want.

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I fail to see why i would chose an AA increase over the dash plus 20% movement speed as well. if they cant burst you down chances are that you have heavy CC be it area or point or click the dash is highly useful to get out of ETC’s slide
not to mention that the dash also applies to Odin dash ability as well