It proves exactly what I said. You talk around the basic point bu giving 2-3 other very specific examples that have nothing to do with it. Teams try to help the team in all mobas. I dont know and dont care how smite is,maybe its more simillar to hots and maybe that is why only a feq people play it. Hots doesnt reward player performance and skill, that is a fact weather you like it or not. It would be a fact even if a game like dota didnt exist asa counter example. And not aknowledging that dota exists or rewards player performance with power is just silly, you either never played anything else pther than smite and think you know everything, or you played but didnt understand at all. In any case this chat wont help more. Keep your convictions to yourself and dont mind they are contrary than simple observational facts.
Then how do you explain GM’s successfully climbing bronze 5 accounts back to GM in a few weeks, over and over solo?
They constantly get afks, trolls, feeders, griefers, and they go on spotless 50-80 game win streaks (only start losing a few matches around platinum to diamond).
A player who is significantly better than the opposing team not only has way more than 10% impact on the result of the game but also completely crushes any impact any enemy player has (since he keeps killing or pushing them away).
Looks like the usual: you are overconfident in your own skills and when it doesn’t work out, your teammates are at fault. I mean of course they are, because you can’t be at fault. You play perfect and have no need to look at your mistakes. You are just a misranked GM, forced to play with bad players.
You can’t carry yourself out of that rank.
You are forced to stay there for all eternity.
You are in elo hell.
Elo hell is also known as the place you belong.
Long text for saying “i am bad at the game but i think i am actually very good and can’t rank up because of my even worse teammates”. At this point i am just curious to know about what ranking you are talking about…
If you really think you can’t rank up because of bad teammates then the opposite is also true: you can only rank up because of bad players and trolls in the enemy team. Because what you do doesn’t really seem to matter right? 
Here it is, sir.
The history of hots.
The reason that there arent enough people of the same skill playing the game is because (as you said) they are stopping playing because there is no reward for individual skill.
The way that they can achieve a separation between casual and competitive players is to actually have a difference between game modes which caters to each type of player.
Ranked mode should be different than all other game modes, and it currently is not. Currently ranked mode is simply a copy paste of every other game mode with regard to the actual gameplay itself. ALL game modes are currently catered to the casual player.
In ranked, a player should not benefit at all from shared experience. This should be the ONE game mode that actually caters to the players who dont ever utter the phrase “its just [x] game mode” as an excuse for why they shouldnt try hard to win.
I played DotA 1 for like five years on Garena… i remember all hero reworks, starting from N’aix (W3 ghoul model) that had like 3 passive abilities and active (Mura avatar ult, he was even screaming for khaz modan lol) and when i got tired of it i tried LoL/HoN but i got bored of LoL in the beginning of season II.
In HotS if you pickup 2 ppl with Kelthuzad in late game it’s over, so how it don’t reward player performance? buyback is strongest team ability in DotA and he can do it just for collecting orbs (cuz there is no gold in HotS), Li-ming the more she kills reset her cooldowns, just like Master Yi in LoL and Azmodan can backdoor core, there are a lot of mechanics that reward player performance and skill, allowing game changing plays. If Mal’ganis freaking badass dread lord dark conversion at 20 is not “game breaking” ability then idk what it is.
The major difference in DotA is more complex map mechanics, uphill, the way fog of war on trees work, juke spots, day and night cycle, camp/rune timers that you have to remember and denying creeps/structures/players/items. Then maybe animation canceling and more impactful micromanagement, Rexxar in HotS is pretty niche, a guy with bear in DotA was top play in tournaments so in this meaning of skill it don’t reward players enough i agree.
I once watched a HotS guy solo streams who climbed up to the master with Zera a typical pub stomping hero, so it is possible. Maybe HotS playerbase isnt really that good as they think they are and they can only win with cheesy comps, maybe its due to meta, that favors these comps and people who cant think outside of a box, either way is the player incapable to do more, game is giving you all the tools required to do so.
DotA is mechanically more complex game, thats the main reason why it reward skill more but in higher play levels the skill is comparable, people know how to counter etc.
DotA just punish a bad player more than any other Moba, it just harshly says ‘you suck!’ and shows you the middle finger, then you go to forums and cry why rikimaru is OP.
If you think that in DotA you can carry hopeless team then gl, if it was the case their forums wouldnt be flooded why my team sucks etc.
I personally feel like HotS reward my skill when i ate core as Azmodan and opponents cant do anything about it.
There was also some impactful mechanics to punish harshly bad players in HotS, but were removed because of “unfun” nature to play against.
Then in DotA every hero is “unfun” and “frustrating” to play against.
The main reason why there isnt real power spike is the community who want HotS to stay that way, if you don’t like it try to play DotA and see if you can climb from bronze to master like one percent of really talented players that you don’t belong to.
I’m sorry but it’s impossible to turn HotS into something like this: https://purgegamers.true.io/g/dota-2-guide/
Are you just this braindead or do you actually want a world model based around anti-social behavior?
Ummm . . . you may want to take a good, long, look at what you wrote and then reconsider who’s promoting a world model based around antisocial behavior.
What a useless wall of text. All i said is that it is a fact the game doesn’t give power spikes for performance and you type 50 rage messages to finish with
“The main reason why there isnt real power spike is the community who want HotS to stay that way,”
That was my point. I didn’t argue if it should change and i didn’t argue if i want to play dota to climb. You are making a fool out of yourself and this would be my last response.
I was answering to the other guy about ranks as well.
HotS is most friendly nontoxic enviroment created by the devs ever, people don’t blame each other because they know it’s useless against said game system.
The way HotS don’t punish harshly bad players is good, because it eliminates majority of toxicity.
HotS enough rewards skill for me, by creating interesting opportunities, if i can get lucky double or even triple kill but eventually lose game, it’s still rewarding experience for me.
I seek only prestige in my personal gameplay not to brag about my win/lose ratio, i dont care about stats only creating interesting gameplay situations.
I had really a lot of games when i was really big with Legion Commander in DotA and still lost to better teamplay, if you think DotA general skill level is so low that EVERYONE can climb from very bottom to the top then you are just wrong.
If you really want to climb in HotS you will find a way if you are good enough np, HotS just dont reward cheap players that much as other Mobas do, doesnt mean that their skill is high, all they can do is just pubstomp noobs.
Good DotA players climb because they can adapt to every situation.
Also why HotS grandmasters mostly play assassins? because is very responsible role like a carry in DotA, some of them even have around 90-100 percent of assassins played in one season, so they dont carry a game? then who is carrying for them? if they are main damage dealers lol.
Soo how will aba,tlv or some other heroes work.This game is build for how it plays and its rly hard changing it.
edit: or darn cho. If he can overlvl he can murder anyone
Also there is zero reasons trying to copy dota or lol. I played ALL 4 mobas and i like this one the most. This game is for ppl who like what its core is.
Changing the core never works unless the core is broken. As you stated you think game core is broken for rank(i play rank a lot as well ) while i dont think so.And most ppl dont.I mean they are still here.
Changing the core of the game will destroy this game. And same will happen to those other 3 mobas if they try.
Cho’Gall doesnt currently level twice as fast as a normal hero and neither would he if shared exp were turned off for the duration of the death timer.
Same thing for Abathur and any other hero that you can think of that is unique in how they operate. No one would level faster (or slower) than any other hero…except for if they die (and thats the point, they should).
Yes, I think its broken at its core. Its a MUCH better game than LoL or Dota because of its various beneficial features such as:
- Mounts
- No tedious last hitting required
- No needing to back every 3 minutes to get another item
- A MULTITUDE of different maps witch can alter the meta per map
- Objectives which spur the action
There are probably more differences that make HotS stand out above the other MOBA’s, but shared exp (at least in ranked) is a huge drawback for competitive players (which most gamers are). If you arent able to attract the larger portion of players to your game then you have what HotS has…a minute player base.
Well i hate that part of lol,dota and smite to the core. When i 1 vs 5 the enemy in dota as faceless it was fun but i sure as hell dont want that happening to me.
Same in lol. I hated when someone killed me so fast due to being overfed. I like the hots design. Its why i play this game the most. Same for my bro. He has friends playing both smite and lol yet plays this the most since for him its best.
To ppl playing hots this game is good as is.
HotS is a game that has incredible potential to garner tons of players and viewers on stream/video’s.
Having said that, its potential is locked behind the fact that they have zero game modes that cater to the typical gamer.
What is the ranked system in place for in any MOBA? So that you can say “Im the best”, or “Im not the best, but Im improving”. The entire ranked system is in place as a measuring stick so that you can compare yourself to your peers. Else what are different ranks for anyway? Who really cares if you get Bronze or GM if its not set up for competitive players. But in HotS case, as a faux catering to competitive players because no real measurement of individual skill truly exists.
I agree with that. But by playing you will improve as long as you want to. It aint obvious as in other moba but you will improve if that is what you desire.
And it will show. No bullcrap about being stuck or other crap like others keeping you down. I know a master players who got put in gold TWICE. And guess what. He got back to master both times. A good player will reach his rank. Just a matter of time.
Also game as is, is great for watching since there is little downtime and nonstop action due to how game works. Lots of TF and that is fun to watch. Way more then snooze fest that is first 20 min of dota and lol.
Dont whine about individual skill. If you have it, you will rise. Only ppl who are stuck (and i am at around plat 3) and want to rize while not up to challenge of improving, or being unable to, come here to whine.
The only difference is that rising here takes more time. But you will reach where you belong in time. I thing it took over 75 matches for that player to get back to master. That can be a problem but its a minor one.
I see what you are saying, but really my rank is irrelevant compared to the desire for actual good games.
Disabling shared exp for the death timer would not be about placing me higher or lower in rank, it would be about placing me into games with players who are of the same skill level. Typically the higher skill you are the more you can get done and still not die as often. Lower skilled players (who are currently in higher ranks than they should be) tend to die more.
The players who die about the same amount of time should gravitate toward the same league and create closer matches where “gg” isnt something you just say at the end of the game, but its actually because the game was a close one.
Well now here comes the problem. This game is the same as other mobas. Too much factors for any mm to actually gives you good matches all the time.All mobas have great and horrid matches while most are standard.
And a player is the only constant in all his fights. So a bad player will have his rank droped over time. So what if you won even tho he gimped you. Over the next 100 fights of gimping his team his rank will go down.
That is what i said before. You will gravitate toward the rank you belong in.Same for that “one” guy gimping you. And honestly he prb picked a hero he was worse at ( i know i lost quite a lot of matches due to making bad picks).
Most ppl play heroes at different lvl and depending on it they can play like total crap. So a player can actually be at his rank but just wanted to try something else. I made that mistake MANY times.Got a deserved flaming sometimes. Happens.
Well, I think the main point we may disagree on is whether or not “most are standard [games]” in HotS.
Its gotten so horrid that the normal game now (the game you I see more often than not) is horribly lopsided. A game where your basically just treading water until the loss, or you are steamrolling the enemy team who has no chance. This is as a direct relation to the fact that the skill levels are not the same.
What is the key factor in all of these games? Maybe double or triple the amount of kills separate the two teams. Winning team with 25 kills, losing team with maybe 10. Its not a coincidence.
Either you get the team who wants to brawl mid until they die, not soak, ignore camps…or you get the other team who doesnt keep dying in lane, soaks, and gets camps.
Its a skill gap issue and its directly tied in to how often a person dies. Players who die more often typically arent worried about soaking or camps or playing skillfully…because they need to hit someone, not do boring pve.
There is no fix for that tho. You play your best. Grumble inside when your team sucks and try your best.
And i hate losses due to bad draft way more.Nothing worse then when the enemy just rushes you and wins playing totally brain dead due to one comp being way better or worse.And often you aint even sure during draft if that is so.
That is the core of all MOBAS. Gotta sleep now 