The Problem Isn't Matchmaking

Fantastic Idea! I hope OP eventually posts a replay.

because they would get on their main and talk smack about how abathur was good on braxis, while having less than 20 aba games on their main.

Yeah, like when your team is absolute trash

Oh for sure, it made them scared, they didn’t know how to play, which was the point I was making. Also, this was an exceptional game for me because I died so much, most games I get high stats, and don’t die, or die a couple times.

If you aren’t wiling to do it to prove your credibility, why ask me to do something similar?

lol, I don’t need to get better, that is not what this post is about. It is what you are trying to make it about, but not the issue. I had plenty of skill, knew how to play every map, had great map and situational awareness, missed on average less than 5 skill shots a game, unless I was playing a pick I wasn’t familiar with or up against a comp of highly mobile picks. My problem was a constant assumption that my teammates were decent until proven otherwise. Turns out, otherwise was usually the case.

I am not interested in trying to prove my skill to you, anymore than you are interested in me picking apart your plays and criticizing them. I knew I was good enough that I should have been diamond at the very least, and I played with enough master and GM players to know I could hold my own there as well, but I would have to invest serious time into the game to maintain that level of play.

Again, my skill was the issue, because it was much higher than other players at my rank, and yet every match was a frustrating cluster where I had to desperately cover for dumb teammates in the hope I could do enough to get a win. It was not the issue because my skill was lower, that I find laughable.

Yes, where you can realize your teammates suck, go power level in the jungle for a few minutes, bide your time, then get a couple quick picks and push for the win. Other mobas allow carrying because your xp is not locked to your teammates capabilities, you have the ability to itemize to counter build your opponents in real time, maps are generally larger and fights faster so you can push a lane or get a pick without putting yourself in danger. Effectively doing more for your team as an individual.

Really!!? That was sarcasm btw, because see, they were there, but they choose to go get a camp instead of pushing a fight, despite it being obvious we needed to capitalize on our existing advantage. Also, someone had to lane clear or we would have lost a T2 structure to a minion wave. Think about it, minions pushing one of our forts, I ping it, we have numbers, I go to clear the wave, and my 4 teammates go to the opposite side of the map to get a camp. At that point I said to myself “wtf am I doing playing this game?” Because it was the same BS I had to deal with in 8 of my last 9 games.

You link yours first, and I will consider it, otherwise it is a complete waste of my time to link a replay for a game I deleted a month ago.

I guarantee the problem is there’s simply too many people to properly monitor them all. So your preventative process is ‘of future incidents,’ given making an account is largely effortless.

So there it is. You can only out a bad player after they’ve done bad. You will always see a ruined game before a vindicated report. It’s just that simple.

That all said? Being sanctimonious about it is absolutely part of the problem.

Look, you are the one, who came here to claim you’re good, everyone else is bad with a game as Leo with 11 deaths…
You need to prove your credibility first, you can’t just pass the responsibility.

But if you want, I can prove to you that what were my ranks and winrates in certain seasons, how many I played, what is my roster.
I can even link you a replay or post neat screenshots, but don’t expect me to find something really similar to your case now, since I left that lvl behind for years. It would take me hours and hours.
You on the other hand can easily find that exact game.

Everyone needs to get better, so this just seems to be the Dunning-Kruger effect again…

Based on what?
What was your winrate?

Um no, that is not how it works. I don’t need to prove I am good or not, you are accusing me of not being good, so the burden of proof is on you. If you want to be recognized as being able to make that judgement, you need to provide evidence that you have the experience and knowledge to do so. I am perfectly content with saying you don’t know what you either don’t know what you are talking about because you never were in a similar situation, or you were in a similar situation, and you would now that I wasn’t simply stat padding because of it.

I don’t need you to post something at my level of play, you con post something similar at yours, unless you are trying to say that such stats are not possible without a huge skill discrepancy, which is exactly my point. You should have no problem finding something recent if such stat padding is so easy, in fact you could go play a game now, pad your stats, then come post your replay, no problem. The only way what you say makes sense is if you do have to dig for such a game where your skill was much higher than other players, because that is the only situation it was likely to ever occur in. See how that supports my argument?

Uh, no, because,

  1. I don’t play this game anymore
  2. When I did play my skill was so much higher than my teammates, you can’t even find a similar replay for yourself without digging into your history when you were lower ranked.
  3. Try applying the Dunning-Kruger effect to something other than a strawman of your creation.

There it is…go look at what I said about how matchmaking works and how skill and win rate are not the same thing when the game isn’t a 1v1 match. Little hint I used my SC2 stats to illustrate why that is the case, since it uses the same basic W/L skill ranking hots does.

By similiar, I meant:

  • me playing Leoric
  • having a Healer
  • going March of the Black King (you said that was your Heroic of choice, probably you went W build as well?)

It’s hard, because I played Leo fairly long ago, because I play with a ton of Heroes (almost the entire roster is lvl15+)
And I almost always pick Entomb cuz it’s more versatile and useful.

And my point is, that Leo is a safe and easy Hero for statpadding even if you are as bad as your allies. He has a nice hp pool, %-based dmg and healing, shorter respawn time. You don’t need to be better by a large margin than your allies (especially since you died 11 times) to statpad. The Hero does it for you.
Once ppl (the Leo and his allies) get better together, Leo’s lead weakens.

And when I said I can post random (non-Leo) replays, I meant recent ones. Diamond+ SL or some QM.

But I climbed from Gold to Master (started as a noob) and my experience is that if someone thinks he’s good, it doesn’t matter what his rank is, he won’t see why the higher ranks are actually better than him. Since he sits in the delusion that he’s great.
I always focused on my mistakes instead of the ones of my allies and that’s how I got better and climbed. I fixed my part, because I’m the only constant in my matches.

Btw I have uploads here:

Just search my name.

Tfw you enter a thread and HealsOnHeels is dumpstering a troll lmao

Great, wonderful, that wasn’t at all what I asked you to provide.

Then where is your replay where you dominated the stats and contributed almost nothing? You keep saying how easy it is, and then go back and say how you don’t want to try and find a replay. If it is that easy, go do it. You are a master player, accounts are free to create, go drop into a bronze game and do it.

Ok? I never said they had to be leo replays or what rank it had to be. in fact I just said it had to be a bruiser, and could be done at any rank.

and my experience is that people that talk like you got a fairly good streak of solid games and never got stuck with 20 games of stupid teammates in a row. Also, never said I was great, I said I was a diamond level as far as my ability to play the game, and could play master or maybe even GM level if I really put time into the game. You have an overly inflated opinion of your own skill if you think that is great. HotS isn’t difficult. You don’t have to last hit, or deny minions, you don’t have to know what your opponents are building item wise, or know what items to build to counter, and most maps are pretty simple and require almost no game knowledge to play.

Again, go read what I said about matchmaking and my SC2 experience, which uses the same basic W/L ranking system.

Everybody wants to blame the player for bad game design, including other players, but never seem to realize someone always gets screwed in a randomized matchmaking system. Just like someone always gets lucky. Its why I had a lower win rate on azmo then a player I was playing against who didn’t know how to play the maps, didn’t know how to build azmo, and didn’t know how to position correctly. The one game I played against him with a decent team, we dumpstered him with ease. The game I got stuck with 3 clowns on my team, his team won despite him, further padding a win rate on something he literally did not know how to play.

As to your replays, as I already said, I am not reinstalling the game so you can prove a point I really don’t care about, and is just you trying to deflect from what my OP was about. If you want to link screenshots of your final stats, go for it, then we can talk, but I am not reinstalling the game.

btw, are you EU player? Because I am getting the feeling you don’t play on US servers, and have no idea how bad the average player is on US servers.

Actually that was what you asked for.
W build MotBK Leo is the Bruiser who can out heal a Healer, deals easily a ton of dmg while actually not providing as much value as one could think from his stats.

Why are you surprised that I won’t take the effort when you keep saying you won’t watch it?

Diamond+ is great.

If it’s so easy, why did you feed?

There are Heroes with last hits and Heroes you don’t want to let get the minions. (Azmo, Naz)
You don’t need to know what they build itemwise, but you need to know what they build talentwise and you need to know what talents are the best for the situation.
And you claim that tje maps are easy-peasy…

Everything is so easy just those damn noobs didn’t let you shine in time…

I’m EU, but play on NA as well from time to time. The average skill lvl seems to be lower there, so it’s a bit easier to get high on the ladder if you are good.

Gotta agree somehow with OP.

Last SL match, solo queue, in draft my team picked lili and lucio, i took chromie, then blaze and fenix. They said hey double supp works I’ve seen it a few times.

Well, the opposing team had Stitches, Guldan and Deckard which were playing much much better than our team. Lili and Lucio took both the healing route, we were lacking damage. Valeera and Genji closed their comp.

When Stitches hooked me, no one peeled for me or tried to rescue me.

Lucio and lili where together all day in mid lane, enemies taking both shrines and all camps. Our damage didn’t compare to theirs.

This happens a lot, even at the same rank, you get shtty team vs not so shtty team and you can’t do ANYTHING to even make a decent match.

Other times you get a nice team and you can win smoothly, or at least make a decent match, not a throw from draft, at the same rank.

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No, it wasn’t

I don’t need to watch it, just screenshot the stats screen. You are the one saying it is easy to do, prove it.

lol, no, it really isn’t, the skill ceiling in this game isn’t high. As I have stated numerous times, this is a moba for casuals, while simultaneously requiring high levels of teamplay, which is why the core design is so bad, because casuals can’t coordinate.

See, this is exactly the point I am making. I didn’t feed, you are claiming I did, simply from my high deaths and yet you can’t find a single replay where your stats where so astronomically high and you contributed little to the outcome of the game.

They are easy, lol. Have you actually played another moba, ever? The skill ceiling in HotS is so much lower than any other moba, simply because there is so much less complexity.

lol, no the game is designed so no one player “shines” it was a deliberate decision by Blizzard. It wouldn’t be so bad but they made it so casual friendly, that getting a decent team while solo queuing is pure luck.

How did I know. Lol, the average skill level being lower does not make games easier. I can influence good teamamtes a lot more than bad teammates, because when I make a good call they know it is a good call and why, they also tend to be in coms. while with bad teammates, they aren’t in coms, and they can’t even see pings or chat messages. I don’t know how many games I lost while specifically telling a player to do or not do something, then they did the opposite, and when I called them out on it after they died, they get super defensive and ask why I didn’t say anything…

In my experience it is much easier for me to take a team of decent/good teammates and beat a team of decent/good players, because I can actually communicate advanced plays to my team in real time. However, since 95%+ of my games didn’t have those kind of teammates, the game became a frustrating dice roll every match where I had to cover for my teamamtes repeatedly, and half the time after body blocking and saving the healer, instead of the healer healing me while I cover the healer, I would be left to die, then the healer would complain that I was throwing/feeding.

The US servers are crap. Every game has at least one smurf or a boosted scrub that is clueless, and most of the players in gold play at the skill level of bronze players a year or two ago.

Double support can work, if it is the right supports running the right builds against the right comps. lili is actually a really good pick against certain picks, like illidan. I have had a few games where I took lili as a second support just to hard counter illidan. I know how to play though, and the last game I played lili in as second support I topped hero damage on my team…with 2 dps picks. Still lost that game, because our dps wasn’t doing damage, but I countered what I intended to, and played a clean game.

That said, it is very situational, a lili second support requires the other team to have a lot of aa damage, or picks that are completely reliant on aa, and should only be done if the player taking the second support really knows what they are doing.

Edit: Also, I would never double support with lucio. He is pretty much a pure support/healer, you lose too much damage and don’t get any disables, blinds, or slows.


Don’t you think that needs the same amount of time and effort from my part?! To find old replays which are good for the task so I can screenshot them?.. Not worth for someone like you tbh.

High death = feeding. It’s a simple concept, surprising you can’t understand it. The more you die, the more xp you give to the enemy. The more times it’s 4v5 for your team making any kind of progress really hard for them.

One of the reason is, because I no longer contribute little to nothing to any kind of match and I won’t do a trollgame just to prove to you that Leo can statpad really easily, especially since you didn’t even prove you could do it in the first place.
I just accepted your empty high stat claims. Why? What was my reason? Because I know the character can do it. I know he can get really high stats even when feeding (so when he does “nothing”). Your story sounded realistic, but you missed a few key things thanks to your infalted ego.

And since you wanted a screenshot so badly, here’s my latest game with Leo (a game from August). I didn’t even build for high dmg and heals (picked Entomb and no W build). Yet I’m topping every stat.

Not astronomically? Well, my teammates didn’t do badly and as I said earlier, I didn’t go for the statpad build what you had.
%-based dmg will make big dmg numbers. %-based heals on a bruiser will make big heal numbers.
Going the build which gives you more %-based dmg and heals (and more dmg and heals) will make astronomical numbers if you’re the only one going in “teamfights”, since your team will always be left without their frontline.

Meh you think stats don’t matter, I do. I tire of the “it can’t be perfect, so forget trying” arguement.

They need individual stats to most accurately show skill.

I’m pretty late to the party of this miasma of a thread, but what the heck, just wanted to point one thing out.

This is what I love with the “forced winrate” or other nonsensical whining, from people like OP.

I mean, if you’re in a match of 5 idiots vs 4 idiots and one good player, the team with teh good player obviously wins.

The ones that cannot climb no matter how much they play are at the rank their skill is at.
But in their denial that they aren’t actually the Master’s that their mothers has been telling them they are, they concoct all sort of excuses as to why they don’t have a visual graphic showing how Master-ly they are ingame.


But according to you it is easy, so you should be able to play a single match and do it. Yet you don’t.

It is funny you should say that, because I died 11 times in a game that lasted almost 40 minutes. while you died 4 times in your screenshot a replay in a game that lasted 16 minutes…should we do some math here?

I honestly don’t even know what you are trying to say. What empty high stats claim? You are the one claiming my high stats are empty, not me.

Yeah, you topped heals in a game without a healer…impressive. Oh and look, you tanked the most in a game where yrel was the only tank. I guess the fact you topped overall DPS should be considered, since there were so many DPS, but that is not really comparable to a game where I outhealed an Ana and out tanked multiple tanks. Also, as mentioned, your death count per minute of gameplay is almost the same as mine, and I was on a losing team. Not really a comparable match, but hey at least you showed something.

You assume all idiots are equal. They never are. Also, because the game has such a low skill cap it makes it near impossible for a single player to carry. Lets say that one good player is playing at 90% potential efficiency…but all his teammates are all playing at sub 60%. While at the same time the other team is all around 75% efficiency. Compared to that one good player, they are hopelessly outmatched 1v1, but when its a 5v5…that one good players team will lose every time, no matter what he does. This creates a frustrating experience for that one good player as he knows he is the best player in the match, and can’t do enough to win the game. That is the issue some of us face. We get tired of being the only player in coms, after asking everyone to join in lobby every match, of making calls and getting ignored, and losing because of it, of trying to get players to just soak lanes every match. We know we can play insanely good games, like a time I played a near perfect naz game with no deaths and 100% kill participation, and still lost because my team literally did not know how to do anything but yolo dive, and yet, it does not matter. I usually know within 3 minutes of match start how good my teammates are, and what kind of match to expect. Maybe 1 out of 10 matches I expected a good match, most of the time I expected it to be a complete mess and whether I won or lost would be determined by who was worse, my teammates, or the opposing team.

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Utterly and pure nonsense.

YOU have no skill to carry. Which is why you can’t climb at all.

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It’d be easy if my teammates would be bad and I would troll the game (I should be trolling to recreate your bad plays).

By empty claim I meant, that you just came here, said that you did xy and called it a day without any actual proof.
And despite your claims having nothing to back them up, I beleived, because I know it’s possible and I even guessed correctly your Bruiser in question before you saying it was Leoric.
Why? Because I know the Heroes.

The match lasting for 40 minutes is also an empty claim (has no prrof), so why believe you?

You also ignored that I went for utility and not dmg+heals as Leo with my build unlike you and I still topped everything with ease.

Some of my high stats are invalid in your eyes because I healed the most with no Healers in the game? Well that’s why I said this:

Because I knew you will nitpick into everything you just can…

Yea, I did, unlike others. Because I’m not just empty words like you.

lol, carry a lot of games do you? just run in 1v5 and clean up the entire opposing team do you? You don’t, because you can’t. Your xp is locked to what your team provides, you can’t buy items to counter heroes/abilities/play styles, you are stuck with cd’s that for the most part are set. There is a maximum amount of damage you can do with each character, and it is not hard to achieve it in team fights, after that it is just positioning and picking the right targets.

This moba requires a laughable amount of skill when compared to Dota, where I can carry.

No items, no last hitting minions to maximize gpm, limited camps, small maps, clear objectives. So few variables to account for…

See, there we are, you acknowledge that in order for me to dominate like i did, my teammates had to be bad. Which was my initial claim.

I wasn’t here to prove my gameplay, I was using my stats to illustrate how bad matches are now.

Well, you don’t have to. I don’t really care if you do or not. If you don’t believe me than you shouldn’t be arguing about my stats, since as far as you are concerned I made them up.

The point isn’t just that you didn’t have a healer, the point is there was no healer in game period, so there is no baseline established. For that matter, you were the only person ever healing yourself so potentially you could heal 100% of your own damage. With a healer you would have a lower potential threshold. I honestly don’t care what brusier you use, or what ult you take. The point was to see if you could get similar stats anyway you could with similar (standard) comps. Although it would be nice to see stats from a losing game as well, since mine was, and generally it is harder to get high stats when you are losing.

You choose to argue against me based on the initial information I presented. You already assumed at that point that the information I had given was correct, because you formed your arguments based on that information. The only interest I have in this game at this point is following up on forum posts. I don’t even have the launcher installed right now. I am not going to reinstall the game to find a replay so you can assumptively analyze it. Which I know is what you would do. I can tell, because it is what you did when with the stats I posted. You didn’t ask how long the game I was in was, or what the other picks were, or what map it was, you just immediately assumed I was a feeding statpadder and a bad player. I am not going to go through a bunch of work to provide a replay so someone with your preconceptions and attitude can look at it and say inane things like “you died because you were out of position” when really I died because I had chosen to try to drain before marching, and got stunned before march cast, while I had wraithwalk up and had I been slightly faster on my rotation I would have been immune for the stun ulted through the person stunning me, and then wraithwalked out of danger because the stun would have hit me while I was unstoppable.

If I really thought you would analyze a replay fairly and ask questions, I might have been willing to go through the work to upload one, but you have been clearly biased against me from your first post, and I have no interest in your opinion of my play because in all likelihood it would be worthless.

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I’m not going to respond to the rest of your nonsensical whining. Enjoy being a loser!


I never denied your teammates being bad, my claim is, that you are just as bad as them.

What stats? I don’t see stats. I don’t see anything from you. So you failed at your attempt.

If I have a Healer, the enemy has a Healer. If the enemy has a Healer, I have a Healer. You nitpicking into even this just shows how little you know…

What stats?!

My arguments often “accept” certain informations as “the truth” even if I don’t believe them, because I often fight the flawed logics and arguments and not questioning everything makes that easier.

  1. These informations should be represented in your original post tbh…
  2. Since your post was an arrogant “i’m better than everyone because i had high stats with 11 death” bragging, first, I wanted to point out that you are not as good as you think you are.
  3. You said pretty early that you deleted the game and you won’t search for the replay. Why should’ve I asked for more details? Pretty high chance that you can’t recall it well from your head anyway…

I don’t buying this…
And I know you won’t believe me, but I analyse games without bias. If you are truly good, I would say that after watching the replay. But since the topic is about you, I would point out all of your mistakes. Because your point is, that you are better than your allies, but if that’s true, you probably do mistakes rarely, and not from the severe ones.

Watch this and learn.