This game is far from realistic and is causing a lot of bugs and bad interactions so to say.
First example is just wall hopping. Someone can cast an ability like diablo or Kerrigan from inside and can approach through the other side of the wall. It’s not like when I use an ability in Overwatch I just go through a wall. People would get pissed if that happened. But in HOTS its feasible? how can this be acceptable for such a quality game. How can it be fair for certain heroes to have that ability and not all?
Another issue that I have observed is the Tassadar force wall. When I have a Diablo on my team and I put force wall up, he can charge at a player and the player will get “stunned” at the wall due to impact. BUT when an enemy Diablo charges someone where I have a wall position where nobody can walk through. he just phases through and acts like it doesn’t exist. So which one is it? Does the wall exist or no? Seems to me the Diablo charge or Kerrigan jumps needs some tuning. Seems like the game designers Don’t really care about vertical objects or barriers in this game. If they meant it to be a 2D game then they should make every heroes ability go through walls and objects. Why should some heroes have the ability to ignore objects while some don’t?
Diablo can pass through terrain with Shadow Charge, if his target is on the other side. So for any wall, including Tassadar’s Force Wall and Leoric’s Entomb, if his target is between him and the wall, the target is stunned. If the target is on the other side of the wall from him, he will charge through the wall and connect with his target. I use this on Diablo when I am feeling lazy to jump through a wall onto a merc camp or boss. It is also nice on ToD or ToSQ with the narrow corridors to ambush enemies who aren’t expecting it.
Yeah I’ve been playing this game for a long time. But this game has imperfections that needs pointing out. Diablo especially with his charge. He is a very heavy cc tank that I would say is non avoidable unless you kill him. Every other tank you can avoid their cc (garrosh can be sometimes be bs luck) but here Diablo presses “q” on a squishy and it stun or move them. With exception that he can flip you over (even 2 more times at lvl 16) so you pretty much kiss you life goodbye. Most other heavy cc tanks like anub I can easily sidestep but Diablo it just feels silly to me. There pretty much is no “skill” involved with the ability. You just press q and you will ALWAYS move towards them.
And if there are some people out there saying well ThATs WHy yOu hAvE a TEaM tO cC HiM. Yeah not talking about that. I’m saying is what can I do as a player to avoid that. Maybe there are others saying “oH YOu SuCK aT THe gaME, YOu ArE GoLD” yeah I’m D3 and and there are things called bush campers (mostly tanks) so they know who the carry is and they just go after them all the time (happens to be me playing dps)
All I’m saying is the interactions need to be avoidable. There is a reason why most dps have skill based abilities. Not like a nova can run around and be pressing q on everyone. There is a thing called skill and it needs to be implemented on every character including all tanks. Not just press r-q-e-e-e (Diablo lvl 16) and get a kill.
Not really saying that Diablo is overpowered. I’m saying the interactions are very clumsy from a designer perspective (unrealistic). If 4 people are standing in front of me why should a guy be able to charge at me without being interrupted by someone in the way (such as a terrain, wall or hero) if I press r with nova triple tap why don’t all bullets go to the hero that I targeted? Oh there is terrain and other heroes in the game that can block shots. But for other heroes they can just press a button (q for example from Diablo) and literally phase shift through everything. If it’s meant to be that way then please put it in the description and make a visual for it. Such as “teleport to a targets location, if it hits terrain they will be stunned.” Diablo really isn’t that OP. I just find it a terrible interaction for the developers part. I just don’t understand why they don’t make it like nova q or valla q. It would be a lot more skilled and more realistic. Whoever Diablo hits first is who he stuns. Not I just charge and someone and everybody else is non existent. Most heroes are fine with their interactions but Diablo is just one of the bigger ones that’s seems to stand out/not make sense
I also don’t see how is this “bad design”, or “clumsy from a dev perspective”.
Point’n’click “Charges” work that way.
The abilities are consistent, easiy to understand.
I think…all abilities go through terrain if the end point of the ability will be on the other side. I shoot hanzo arrows or ming orbs through walls all the time… It’s only abilities with a short range that are not long enough to pass through a walls hitbox that don’t isn’t it? Someone fact check me here.
Ah I get it, this is a secret ‘buff Diablo’ thread. You want it so if Diablo charges someone he actually punts them THROUGH terrain kicking them out of the fight instead of just a mere stun.
Perhaps lean to read abilities, Diablo’s charge states that you can bash the target into terrain and it does just that. There’s no line which says Diablo himself will be stunned if he himself attempts to charge through terrain.
The same goes for Triple Tap; it specifically states that it hits heroes and structures, and yes it actually can go through terrain including Force Wall. Do note that ‘terrain’ and the targetable structures referred to as ‘walls’ are 2 different things.
Do you really think something like diablo or kerrigan can’t just demolish a mere wall by dashing towards it if the game was “real”?
If anything they would walk through one with ease.
Also , diablo having a point and click engage while strong has a caveat that all point and click dashes share: you need to have a see the target to be able to use it.
If you are in a bush diablo can’t dash because no vision and he can’t reliably use it as an escape button.
Meanwhile while you can dodge anubs’ charge he can use it as an escape without needing a target and he does not need a visible target to use it, and his travel is unstoppable too.
As for what you can do against shadow charge well for starters not be close to a wall , there also are ways to bait a charge on you early game to put diabo in a bad position if he takes it but it does not works as well if he goes for domination and apocalypse.
Shadow charge becoming a skillshot has been discussed in the past and frankly it could be a buff for the hero giving him an escape button.
On the other hand point and click CC needs to exist so that evasive divers do not reigns unhinged.
You do not want to face zeratul tracer or illidan without point and click CC.
Yeah “don’t stand by a wall” clearly you haven’t played this game enough to know how much terrain there is on every map
“You can cc him while he charges” No I can’t if I’m a dps player like Grey or Tass there is NOTHING I can do about his charge. This about what I can do to avoid it not what my team can do to help. Then that’s an what if thread.
Hanzo arrows and Ming abilities can be simply side stepped. I’m saying a press to go through terrain AND CC needs some tuning. I really don’t have problems with skill biased abilities. But press a button and you get cc chained is just irritating.
I really don’t see a negative from having a point to click cc. Sure he needs to have vision which most of the time during an objective he will have. Or the best part is when he is just camping a bush obviously he has vision of me before I do. I think his charge should be skill based. I would not even mind if he could use it as a escape like anub. As long as he can’t cc me and use it as an escape is all good for me.
Also don’t really think I have issues with needing a point to click cc for any heroes like zera, tracer or illidan. They aren’t high health pooled characters and they are fairly easy to kill using basic attacks or abilities.
Then there is this guy willyvereb here who says I’m a new user. I don’t about you but I’ve been playing this game since beta. YOU on the other hand have been playing this game for quite some time too. And you are in EU playing in bronze. While your quick match mmr is in gold 1. I’m glad you have the audacity to compare yourself to me as you clearly haven’t read this thread. Maybe get your rank higher to see what I see in my games.
Unless you are Hanzo, there really isn’t a need to position yourself such that you are an easy stun target. In addition, if you are where you are supposed to be as Tassadar or Greymane at the start of the fight, the Diablo will have to go all-in to stun you, putting himself wildly out of position and vulnerable to a counter engage.
In addition, there are a number of maps where the layout makes it difficult to line up a stun, especially on a ranged assassin. Volskaya, Hanamura, BhB, and WHJ are all fairly wide open, and pretty easy to avoid lurking Diablos. If you don’t see him on the mini-map, just assume he is waiting for you, and path appropriately. On the maps where he is strong, such as TotSQ, ToD, or Cursed Hollow, don’t wander around alone (which honestly you shouldn’t be doing anyway).
Assassins shouldn’t be able to counter every hero in the game on their own, and there will be times you will have to rely on your team to help you. That is one of the things I like about HotS.
i’ll agree that they do need to decide on the consistency of it.
diablo in a zombie circle? click charge to charge out of it!
Varian in a zombie circle? click charge to spin around inside the circle…
Imperius can go through walls.
ETC can talent to go through walls.
azmodan (with trample) can’t go through walls.
Hah that’s funny. Yeah this becomes a number game then. If Diablo is “putting himself out there” it really doesn’t matter. Because he can either kill me or make my health close to 0. He as a tank peels and cc locks me. So we only have 1 dps to try to focus him down. Sorry but Diablo has a very good sustain aa build where he CAN out position himself to get a squishy dps or healer.
Yeah that’s a good one too. Those maps are so open that they gave the ability to lurk and pop out of any hidden corner. If you want you can friend me and I can show you a replay of how a good Diablo will just get to me super aggressively without giving a care. The higher the rank you are. The more aggressive the Diablo’s become. And maybe you can show me what I myself could’ve done in that situation. Because I’m really looking forward to it.
That’s all this thread is about. If you can’t position for a damn, don’t blame a 6 years old hero with an ability which remained more or less the same.