It sounds to me like my earlier post is correct - that a simple avoid player system would accomplish exactly what you’re hoping for. The first time you play with anyone is always going to be a coin toss, whether there’s a group finder or not.
I think comparing the dungeon finder to HOTS was a bad example on my part because you’re pitting the players against content that does not vary. I apologize for that bad comparison. Instead, how about explaining why random battlegrounds still have players queuing instead of everyone always doing premades. Keep in mind that the HOTS matchmaking system is still going to try to match based on MMR.
I used to think that too, honestly, but I realized later on that most of the players that you usually want to avoid, it’s because they are incredibly bad or of unpleasant temperament. But why are they like that? Because they can, my idea will remove their ability to do this without immediate consequence. Trust me, as much as you may think you are correct, being kicked from a group doesn’t come without being somewhat pissed and you will learn from your mistake. Your method simply dismisses them, mine attempts to redeem them and offer and better experience for all with the inevitable culture change that would result from my proposed change.
At first, yes, but over time, not. Think further than the immediate situation post change.
Same explanation as before but for PVP. There is Rated BGs that you cannot queue for because it is the more casual “competitive” PVP mode, which rewards a different currency than it’s non-competitive Random Battleground (Basically Quickmatch) that just gives Honor. As opposed to the Hardcore Competitive PVP mode Arenas which has actual tournaments. Again, cannot be queued for, you need to go in with your team pre-made.
Hots Currently doesn’t have a “most competitive mode” because the current structure of SL doesn’t allow for an experience that delivers “the most competitive game mode” (Outside of leagues and tournaments hosted outside of the game’s interface). You can queue as 5, are more likely to face other groups, yet you have the same ranking as if you were to queue alone vs potential solos, stacks or smurfs or boosters? How is this a consistently good experience. My idea would organize all of the current chaos in SL and allow for a better experience. Better experience = potential increase in popularity and therefore player population = potential they dedicate more resources to HotS. It’s a long shot, but new ideas is the only way anything will change, if nothing is done, nothing will change.
Who here honestly feels that this game is living up to it’s potential as far as overall quality goes?
I was wondering when the ad-hominem guy would come for me LOL, he actually went to find and snip clips of me not playing perfectly, if this right here doesn’t prove that this forum is filled with people only out to win “imaginary internet points”. He literally just came in here to attack me, brought nothing of value…
Have your jab, hope it feels good, I’m not the best player in the world, there I said it, doesn’t make my idea worth less than another, now be on your way if you are not going to participate in exchanging actual ideas without the use of logical fallacies.
Heroes being affected unevenly is one thing… but saying the CC was made worse because of a counter that was introduced is completely different. Introducing Deathwing into this game made some heroes much weaker… So what? Theres like 90 heroes to choose from. Imagine a game where reliance on CC isnt the only strategy!
What do you say to heroes that have no counter to CC? You say… ‘tough luck’, rely on your teammates to support you, play safer, etc. So its OK for certain heroes to be overly penalized by CC, but not OK for some heroes to overly penalized by the medallion?
EDIT: And Xul’s Bone Prison has a 10 second cooldown. The medallion had a 300 second cooldown. And thats a counter? If CDs don’t matter than theres a lot of rebalancing to be done.
Nor yours. You don’t have a monopoly on the truth. Your ‘facts’ are based on your experiences. Well my experiences are different.
The overabundance of CC in the game is much more of a plague than a medallion you could use 3 times per game (in which half the time you use it and die anyways).
But like so many other ideas… we know what you don’t like, but what is the right way to address CC spam? Please feel free to start a new thread. And you cant say reworking 60 heroes because that’s never gonna happen.
And the statistics that came out about pickrates and winrates AND the meta that popped up after the first week of the CCL during the MEdallion’s existence
User error an argument does not make
Yeah that’s exactly what you say
and I main a melee assassin who doesn’t’t need more then a single stun and a decent team to murder if I"m not cautious about positioning.
CC spam is not that big of an issue, all you really need is more healers and supports with grantable Unstoppable, and that seems like the direction they are going given REhgar’s new Purge ability that might become a new norm for a bunch of other healers, not complicated and unlike a blanket change like the Gladiators medallion won’t cause sweeping balance problems overnight by sending a round dozen heroes straight to the F tier and another dozen straight to the A and S tiers.
This is the most retarded argument for the Medallion I heard, and it was so pervasive it’s unreal.
Post level 16 team fights can be won and lost in under 20 seconds, It doesn’t matter how long the cooldown is,
Let’s take some extreme examples, Qhira, Revolving sweep is 16 second CD, you use the medallion while she’s swinging and best case scenario for her is she’s a bit too far from the fight with the shorter CD of her mobility tools out of commission for what will likely be the rest of the fight
KTZ: one second of unstoppable can cancel his ENTIRE Combo, which makes him useless for something like 10 seconds minimum, oh and did we mention that this medallion in theory functions as a buff to the hyper mobile dive heroes who can get more mileage out of it, heroes who can use 1 second of unstoppable to delete KTZ, like say Zeratul
Then you’ve got several healers like Anduin who rely on their CC for self defence, one second of unstoppable can mean a dead Healer in these scenarios
Oh and I"m sure you know how long SPAWN TIMERS are right? if the medallion can translate to a kill by denying CC, It has a huge impact.
and that’s before you even consider that because the Gladiators medallion effected all games equally, well like I said it impacts teams that have less CC worse, if all you have is an Arthas’ for CC and the enemy all have a medallion, well you’re gonna feel the impact of the Medallion, regardless of how small MORE in that scenario then with a stun lock
You talk as though the medallion can be used 8-10 times per game. Dunno about you… but I’ve never had a 45 minute HotS game.
Take a single team fight. Xul put Bone Prison on you… You use the medallion (oh no!). Guess what? There’s 3 other enemy heroes in that fight each with their own CC. Now what? Maybe the enemy will just leave me alone for the next 5 minutes? Objectives are overrated anyways.
The reality I saw was a hero was at 10% health trying to get out of a team fight but can’t (shocker!). They pop the medallion and make it another 10 feet only to die anyways. What a game changer!
User error you say? Yeah, that would be generic response #4 from the forum of cynicism.
Choices:
Player population is too low.
Your idea doesn’t solve 100% of the problem (the ol’ letting ‘perfect’ be the enemy of ‘good’).
Blizz tried that already and everyone hated it. 4. Problem can be solved by learning to play.
My very point is… whichever team has the most CC wins. Its the worst kind of meta you can have. This statement is Exhibit A.
I’ll say it again… Imagine a game where there is an alternate strategy to spamming CC! Crazy talk I know.
Speculation. When Team League enforced 5 man vs 5 man rules it was the most unpopular PVP mode in all of Hots and had very long queue times. Only in the last two seasons of Team League where they changed the rules and allowed people to group solo or as any party size did it became popular.
They also gave away a free mount for any rank, so there were even more incentives to play.
Oh snap! I figured as much when the OP said they wanted players who weren’t bad or anti-social and then wrote this:
I’ve said it so many times, the Only reason TL failed is because of how hard it was to form groups. With that solved via group finder, TL can come back. It was unpopular because of the lack of tools to support the mode. Not because it was not the best game mode.
Same reasoning as before, it got more popular because it became more accessible, not because of the non-5man. Game quality also went down because of this change.
You are against removing POS people from your life? Or reducing their impact? Why? Unless…
I think I’m starting to see the real reason why the typical forum lurkers are against changes that remove their ability to be a POS with no repercussions… kind of like lucifer literally attacking me instead of my idea, are you in like high school dude? You think attacking me somehow discredits my idea? You’ve so much to learn… Ask yourself, what you are actually trying to do? Contribute? Naw… you are just out to feed your ego and accumulate those sweet sweet imaginary internet points.
I don’t know about dia+, but for all other ranks (the majority) I totally agree that 5 stacks don’t give them a free win. I have won many games with solos or 2-stacks against 5 stacks, even stomped them. They were uncoodinated as solos.
Probably only master+ would have a bit higher chances, but how likely is that?
Using that term to describe players who lack skill is disrespectful in itself. As Lucifer revealed by linking your in game chat in the replay, you are guilty of that very antisocial behavior in games yourself which you claim you want to eliminate. This calls into question your integrity in regards to your statements, not mine.
Yes you’ve said it so many times, which doesn’t make it true. Of course social tools would help players groups and we should have had them from launch. However, it isn’t a given that forcing players to group only as five in ranked would make it more popular. Even with added social tools with Hots current state, I think forcing people to group as five would make ranked even less popular, not more so.
Lucifer didn’t attack you, he gave a solid example of how you don’t live up to the ideals you are expecting of others.
Considering I use no form of social media, that particular salvo missed by a country mile. I don’t care about scoring points virtual or otherwise. When SL was introduced and I pointed out allowing people to group 2 ranks apart, and lowering the account and hero levels would lead to poor match quality, a decline in ladder integrity and encourage rampant smurfing and boosting, this was not met favorably by the majority of this community. I still stick by what I said, despite it.
In this thread I have already agreed with some of your ideas and added some of my own. Simply because I don’t agree with all of them doesn’t mean I want imaginary internet clout on a forum that is so niche it’s ignored by its own Dev team. It’s simply because I don’t think some of your ideas have merit.
Xivilaikys summed up my feeling on your proposals here:
As this discussion has reached an impasse, I’ll step out of it and wish you all the best for the future. I really do like some of your ideas and respect your enthusiasm for them, but attacking my character because I don’t accept all of them is not a discussion I want to participate in.
What Lucifer did was garbage. Its was the equivalent of posting the guys high school year book picture for the intent of everyone to laugh at. I can’t imagine how much time he has prolly wasted trying to dig up dirt on other forum posters…
Call the OP a hypocrite if you want, but that has no bearing on whether or not his idea is a good one or not. Argue the idea… not the person.
Would love for this to happen but everyone will always argue, player base is too small. Sadly until this changes. No one is gonna play. I myself have quit SL and this game until this is changed cause I have lost interest in playing a game that will give me a 10 death player while im against a 5man premade 80% of the time. 0 fun in that and we are not even allowed to surrender cause supposedly its possible to carry that 10 death player yet I have never seen such a thing happen.
No GMS do not count cause one I am not GM and two that is less than 1% of the player base.
It’s not just a population issue, it’s also a support issue. Hots is in maintenance mode, a change like this isn’t minor and so it also requires time and resources from the Devs.
There is no guaranteed the suggestion from the OP will encourage more people to play Ranked, so I imagine the Devs will put more time into fixing bugs, balancing and reworks over an untried idea such as this.
The fact that seasons are now six months long has discouraged me from playing SL more than the occasional time I’ve ever had to play vs a full 5 man team, or had difficulty finding four other people to join up for a match.
I’ve already said Hots should have social tools added like communities and clans which would be needed if the OP’s idea of forcing 5 man only comps in ranked were to be remotely feasible. What chance do you we have that the Dev team will not only rework ranked but also add Clans and Guilds?
Social tools were never added when Hots was fully supported, even though they were requested many times, so how likely is that to happen in 2022? Sometimes it’s necessary to adjust your expectations to the current reality you find yourself in.
Very bad idea. Very few people play in 5stacks - mode would be dead on arrival. Most people play solo or duo.
P.S. I’ve always played strictly only ranked. It’s the only really good mode to play. I don’t see why you would be so intent to kill it. You want 5man vs 5man? Go play scrims (customs) - that option has always been there.
Just because something is “likely not going to happen” doesn’t mean the idea should not be at least entertained, or improved upon. I very much like this game, but the playerbase is going down the tubes. It becomes an endless cycle of match quality vs match quantity debacles and I say if the game’s population is dropping, at least make the game quality better and the dedicated playerbase will love it. Then if this game is EVER to make a comeback (this is why I think ideas are important) it needs to have the support to get people playing at the most competitive level while removing all the frustrations that comes with the bad matchmaking due to elo-like ranking systems was designed for 1v1 in a game (chess), to rank all of that playerbase’s players according to the only metric that matters in chess, winning, making their rank go up based on who they beat. When you have 5 randoms, your true mmr is really unknown, as is your ability to learn to play better the right way. (Leading to delusions such as a zagara main with 60% that gets banned for split pushing 100% while ignoring the rest of the map.)
probability and practicality are generally influential that do influence ‘entertaining’ an idea.
Not that that matter much anyway since the devs do not need, or use, the forums permission for what changes they consider, or even make. More so since outcry to any given change boils down to “nobody asked for this” rants by people that don’t actually care what efforts are put into the game, and pretty much boil down into gratification of their demand being personally met.
Since the last couple of instances of callouts and thanks weren’t sourced from the forums, and instead were for reddit users, either the discussion on this is particular just to those replying to you, or it doesn’t really matter anyway.
As a generalized ‘case-study’ on player response to the game, people do not like being “Forced” to do something and they have been incredibly against teaming up for something. Combining the two is more likely to be taken as bad, than as good, as a sweep-all reply that such a change should be made ‘anyway’ does more to undermine the concerns of the change in the first place.
However, that was pretty evident since the title of the post – the thing people with which people pay more attention – uses the meme/bait of “change my mind” which is used by people that generally are not willing to have their ‘mind changed’ and also have a disconnected sense of what actually goes into making changes happen. But speaking of memes and bait, here’s a fun one:
Yup, still smells like gatekeeping. This is WoW all over again. They measure your epeen, tell you, you suck (without actually knowing your skills), and deny you access to content/guild. This was all during the time when people actually gave a damn about WoW. “The community was much closer.” I call BS.
Even IF this idea were to happen, I can just hop on my boosted account and troll your game, or I can still go on my normal account and troll your game. No one is going to have a heart to heart with you so you can discern whether they are a “pos” during a LFG.
You’re dedicated to your idea because you don’t want to do the work to MAKE. SOME. FRIENDS. that you trust.
How would you do that exactly? I would never invite you, and if for some reason you lied your way into my group to specifically troll me in 1 game (ur blocked after and won’t ever be a problem to me again).
It’s not gatekeeping as there is NOTHING that would prevent you from playing the game and making your own group or keep applying to groups and hope for an invite. It’s not just about weeding out the bad players, it’s also to have better match quality, everyone knows their role before game starts, you actually have people able to and willing to play the roles required.
Random matchmaking just creates frustrating games and makes the game stale because you can usually tell if you have no chance of winning from the start just based on team comp and your only hope is that the enemy is bad and you can SOMEHOW win. Or it’s the reverse and you are unstoppable because the enemy doesn’t have a tank/healer/proper composition to go against yours. Or they have the troll and it’s basically a free win. But the thing is, none of those games are fun and they happen more often than not.
To fix this, “forcing” 5 mans and having a Group Finder Tool would naturally eliminate most if not all of the things that make SL not fun. All it takes is 1 player to ruin a game and we have no way of protecting ourselves from them. My way addresses it all. And what is the cost of all this? You having to actually talk to someone and/or click an extra button or 2.
Why would you be against limiting players impact on other players fun? Like why should I be forced to play with someone who just wants to play zag solo lane all game and ignore literally everything else in the game, they die and just go right back to it. If that player wants to do that, they should find 4 people that are ok with that playstyle. That player should not get to impose themselves on others.
This will also reduce toxicity. What enables/creates toxicity is the lack of repercussions for being a pos to others in game, not respecting your allies, ignoring them, crying in chat, etc. People naturally behave better when others have ways to better control your effect on them. AKA can remove you from their team/guild. Were you ever on a team where a player held the other’s hostage by threatening to troll the game if he doesn’t get his way? Got called out by someone and he proceeded to double down and troll the game? That kind of behavior only exists because there is no repercussions for doing that. I think there should be. And the best way to control people is to allow the community to police itself. The automated report system we have doesn’t work and even if you get banned, you can just make another account and be back to SL in a week or so. As long as you play with new player boosted XP. Then you are effectively a smurf, ruining low level games or fighting other smurfs. Ruining the new player experience for actual new players which leads to this game’s population to go down and eventually the game will be nothing but a rotting corpse… unless we inject some life back into it by fixing the root cause of what makes some games unenjoyable : OTHER PEOPLE. Remove the randomness from it, add personal accountability and the proper tools to support it and you will get improvement.
LOL, he actually went to find and snip clips of me not playing perfectly, if this right here doesn’t prove that this forum is filled with people only out to win “imaginary internet points”. He literally just came in here to attack me, brought nothing of value…
You don’t have a monopoly on the truth. Your ‘facts’ are based on your experiences. Well my experiences are different.
