If all heroes in the lane got the same xp then the best strat would be to five man one lane and just push and everyone would get the same xp anyway. Also none of this matters because the game is balanced around shared xp. They would have to rework every hero and rethink every map. Honestly at this point it’s fair to assume that you are simply functionally retarded and can’t grasp what you’re asking for.
7 Likes
This is a very team dependant game, way more so than LoL or Dota… you are required to come together as a team every few minutes.
Sometimes yea you’ll get games where you’ve done the most and that sucks but its definitely not a reason to call for removing a fundamental part of the game.
I think individual levels would just cause alot of people to sit and lane a farm when that isnt the point of HoTS.
If you want to play a game where individuals are rewards more and sit in lane more. LoL and Dots is there for you.
2 Likes
That might not necessarily end up being true. We’ll have to see if enough players leave HoTS and it results in games that have over 10 minute queue’s. I see what you mean though. HoTS is still unique among mobas: Talents, different maps, and objectives are pretty different.
I understand what you mean about rotations and I think this is probably similar to how someone might say “hold that globe for me”, or at least I know for me personally Ill try and hold off killing a wave of minions if I know I have a friendly Butcher rotating to my lane.
I think you would still come up with a cohesive game plan as a team. “I’ll soak top while you guys rotate as 4 mid and bot for -stacks- -ganks- etc.” All players should (if conscious of teammates - which I realize not all are now) be looking out for each other and playing to their comps strength. “We need to get Butcher stacked.” or before Sylv changes you would see “Push bot as 3 with Sylv.” There is still a need for teamwork just like there is right now.
Consider a Sylv who plays incredibly well and ends up getting her heroic before anyone else. This would be pretty impactful in a team fight. Even someone like Zagara who might get Nydus would have great potential to be both split pushing and use Nydus in time for the objective. I dont think that players would be discouraged from team fighting. I should think they would be instead encouraged to use their power to win the game.
Seeing as how (if they are higher level from all their soaking) they end up getting ganked they will give more exp to the enemy team. I still think a cautious approach to soaking would reign as correct.
ook this heroe lvl how would get xp and from what,from more dmgs ,kills and less deaths and high complete xp?! I undestand you ,you want such hero lvl be trasfered to heroe,right?! not like current team lvl,right?!
And this hero lvl ,should be safed for all future games or only would be for single game and for an axample ranked games?! hm…i like idea…hm…lets see is it this your topic be read from Blizzard forum peoples.
I did proposal different idea long time ago ( avarage 2 years ago),almost same like current lvls like heroes and account lvls,but would be bassed of KDA( kill,death,assists) ratio and to be calculated per every 7 days ,Lvls would be 5.XP can get and collected and calculated from after every complete end game. Every such lvl would be with with 1000 xp ( like now current devisons points). Wait the min,i must remind what exactly was mine idea. There was something calculated death ratio % after every completed end game.hmmm…I cant right remeber what exactly was.Then you can understand me very well. And depence from player lvl, MM system would search same lvls.Maybe you would ask me " Why would be colleted and calculated per every 7 days" ,right?!
Because our human qualityes ,emoties,condtions are different comstatly depence from our real life things.
Otherwise your ideas are good, and was high interesed for me,i read from time by time both ( EU and US) forums and collect such ideas. And i think about them.
I will again make the argument for consolidating all game modes into: ARAM, Queue as Role (drafts and bans like TL), and Queue as Character (blind draft, no bans, no locks, see map, not other team picks).
Remove the rank system and ladder, and match based only on MMR banding.
Make all season rewards based on games played and/or won, and not on Rank or MMR. This would discourage boosting and people who play 10 placement then stop.
Dota 2 exists for a reason. Go play that.
Non-shared exp will just promote selfish play. No one will be at the objective ever (I’ll let my teammates do it while I farm)
Dota is a 1 hour farm fest because everyone is too selfish. At low to mid levels of play, when you ping for a smoke gank, NO ONE COMES (because everyone wants to play selfish and farm for their glory
5 Likes
Wow what a shame this school essay was so poorly received only one person upvoted it. Maybe its a bad idea OP
Yeah, It would be the exp gain only for that game. It would be based on being in lane when minions die. It would be given out for killing camps. And it would be given out to players who do damage or heal during team fights where the enemy dies. The exp would not be split among the players. Each one would gain the full exp.
Why settle for one when you can have 5?
Also, what is your solution for having individual exp/levels without last hitting or without kill stealing/letting your team give you the kill while they hold back?
You mentioned that if a player is super leveled up and strong, would pretty much carry the rest of the weaker ones. This will give even more rise for douche bags to boast how awesome they are, or how they are complaining they had to carry the team cause he is playing with a bunch of noobs.
I prefer those guys be dependent on the team so they have no reason to say their feces don’t stink.
It’s a team game, not, “My epeen is bigger than yours so I deserve all the things!” I’m not gunna play the beeotch the whole game just so ONE player gets all the accolades at the end. If I CHOOSE to play support, I know what I’m getting myself into. I won’t be making kills or getting tons of exp. So if my support can’t keep up, how the heck do you expect me to help late game?
Before you go anywhere else… I think you overlook the overwhelming balance changes that would need to occur in order to account for players no longer growing together as a team. Some characters are designed to be back-line and passive. If you have a character like Deckard Cain, his strength comes from setting up your allies for easier kills by rooting or slowing enemy heroes, while trying to place healing in strategic places. If Deckard is swinging his cane, you’re either rubbing salt into the wounds of a beaten foe, or just displaying a futile defiance in the face of a dominant foe. A character like this, backline and/or passive, is going to need some significant buffs to stay relevant, since his XP gain is going to be less than your average frontline character. Meanwhile, the characters that are frontline need to be scaled BACK in order to keep them from being overwhelmingly powerful and being a one-man snowball. Each talent tier has the capability to produce a MASSIVE power spike in the hands of a knowledgeable player. Talents that grant Unstoppable can mitigate stuns/slows/roots that posed an issue for your team, while talents that grant greater healing offset the spike damage some assassins can do. One character having access to more of these options earlier than others is going to create one very powerful character that will be hard to overcome.
Furthermore, by giving two communal levels, it enables the team to reach a conclusion about team tactics and the approach to things much more easily and make a decision AS A TEAM. You don’t have to look at each level of your team, then each level of the enemy team, then haggle over what the threat is. You know what level they’re at, you know what talents they have access to, that removes a lot of argument. The guy who plays too recklessly is still going to hand an advantage to the enemy… both through the XP granted through his death, AND the fact that there’s one less player to help soak a lane, and the fact that his team is now, at best, 4v5. There are still problems with playing recklessly, but the system also allows for players to take that long-shot gamble and get the big payoff if they do things right.
HotS was built from the beginning to be it’s own game. It has the 3rd person view, it has levels, abilities and cooldowns like other MOBA’s… but it still is it’s own game. It was built from the start to have communal levels, and everything about the characters were built on that balance premise. Other games do it differently. Cool. But just as changing from a shared XP to exclusive XP in HotS would just distort everything to the point of destroying the game, putting some characters into OP range while pushing others into useless… Putting shared XP into DotA or LoL would just ruin THAT as well. Some of those characters were designed to be sturdy early-game starting with strong stats but offset by slow increases that diminished over time, while others were intended to grow rapidly with each level they gained while starting with relatively weaker stats… Those games would be ruined as well.
I understand the urge to change the game to make better players, but really, it’s just going to make things so so much worse.
I’d argue that creating more abilities or quest talents that carry a penalty for death would do a far better job than breaking up the XP pool. Hanzo’s Redemption stacks can build to a very healthy attack speed buff, but each time he dies he loses three stacks… which translates to six shots (at a slower speed) that he needs to land on enemy heroes (two at a time, mind you) to get BACK to that higher damage speed. Tracer also has a talent granting damage for successful takedowns that resets on her death. Diablo’s trait does give him added health and damage, but after a point it becomes a constant threat that he could die and despite the quick resurrect, he’s back down to puny size and has to build back up again… potentially at late-game. This not only encourages players to be more tactical than reckless, but also can be tailored to the individual character’s balance and playstyle.
3 Likes
wait,wait…how without ladder and rank?!
I’d rather just remove MMR, or at least remove the MMR as equation to matching, rank is enough, win games, climb up, get better friend/foe, if able to survive fine, if able to carry even better, if not able to, lose, go down, no need MMR to adjust teams, have a doc. with details on how to do (if interested)…
You wouldnt need to last hit in order to gain exp. You would only need to participate in the kill (of an enemy hero) in some way. Either by doing damage, or by healing those who did do damage.
With regard to minions dying, you would only need to be in proximity of a dying minion in order to gain exp (as it is now) - it just wouldnt be shared with players in other lanes.
As far as people being cocky…you will always have that no matter what game you play. We already have a ranking system. What else is a competitive league for but to try and be “the best”. That doesnt mean that you will automatically be a jerk just cause you have skill.
And being support…I used to suck at being support, but I learned better how to play it and now I get MVP (and praise from my team) quite often. I dont think because you play support you need to be seen as a weaker player.
Sorry I havent clarified it well enough in my original post. I will edit this. The way it would work would be that Deckard would game the same exp as Valla if they are in the same lane when a minion dies.
Valla in lane alone gains 40 exp when a minion dies.
Valla and Deckard in the same lane. Valla has done all the damage and Deckard has only healed. Both Valla and Deckard gain 40 exp when a minion dies (or whatever the exp is for minions). Deckard wouldnt need to go outside of his role in order to benefit. All he has to do is be in range when the minion dies. He can still do things like snare opponents and heal without putting himself in danger of dying to enemy heroes.
As far as something like PvP, as long as Deckard heals Valla while Valla kills the enemy then they both get the exp from the enemy hero death. Deckard doesnt need to hit the guy with his staff.
HotS is in disarray. These changes are to consolidate playerbase and remove ladder anxiety, boosting, smurfing, and people stopping at 10 placement games to protect rank. These changes are meant to encourage better mechanics and composition without forced composition.
Essentially, you want shared XP to be local instead of global. That might work so long as more activities reward XP, as opposed to just killing stuff. For example, if the Lost Vikings got passive XP gain from having all three of them in different places, or stealth heroes got XP for scouting enemy locations.
As long as the only source of XP is doing damage, I don’t think localizing it will do anything more than constrict the game even more than it has been.
2 Likes
I would have to agree with this. This essentially means, scouts like Tracer and the stealth heroes are going to miss out on exp because they are keeping an eye on the enemy.
This also means, that in order to maximize exp for the TEAM, they MUST be grouped at all times. If you’re straggling you’re just holding back the team or gaining exp on your own. Not all are capable of doing this. So they must be near someone who can wave clear and or make kills. If your team has poor wave clear, they must be killing the opposing team together, or maybe doing a camp. If opposing team knows this, your entire team will be starving for exp because they avoided being killed. This will just prolong the game unnecessarily when HOTS has done leaps and bounds to shorten the game to an average of 15-25 minutes. Dota 2 can average 40+ minutes.
THe opposing team can also bully on specific hero to stunt their exp growth. So in summation, 1 lane HOTS. Because in Dota 2 all heroes can make kills solo with the right items.
1 Like
Aaa man…if you lvl up your heroe like LoL,DoTa 2 ana all rest same games,then there would be called HoST a Selfish Heroe of the Storm…man…better stop think about what is complete befor over 15 years in other games . Same idea repeatedly 10000000 times. Better read my threads.
The problems just get bigger from that. What about Abathur? Often you find him camped back just behind the outer defenses, is he still in-lane? What if he’s in one lane to create pressure with his added spawn creeps while his symbiote is on another? Which lane does he draw from? The Living Vikings also, is it just the one you’re controlling at the time that gets the experience? Or is it all three? What about heroes that are rotating? Just because they were in the area for the fight, do they pick up the XP anyways? Are the lanes clearly defined so players know when they are in lane or not? What about characters between lanes that decide to ambush? Some abilities pass through obstructions and make for a good ambush against a target in-lane…
I’m sorry, but this still doesn’t get around the other problems I stated. Varied levels creating dissonance between players in forming a strategy for dealing with the situation at-hand is still a problem, as well as the fact that character balance will need to be entirely re-worked for every character.
Again, to try and highlight the nuances, I can only think to ask to reverse the thought-experiment and see the effects that would create… How significant would the changes be to DotA and LoL if they were changed to a shared-XP pool? Can anyone address this beyond what I’ve already stated (some characters start beefy but levels only add small stat increases, while others start weak and gain stat increases rapidly)…? I think there’s a LOT of nuance to balance that’s just being ignored.
No, they don’t. Your so call “individual effort” is nothing more than a cattle chosen from each team. And they would babysit (read: force feed) that player until they are bloated with OP gears and level that can A move across the map, 1v5 the opposing team. Yeah, that pretty fun for that ONE player. For the rest of the team? Not much, rather than a constant stream of insults, blame and reports for failing to protect the team’s cattle. That’s no team work. That’s no team work, that’s farming simulation.
Those games are more popular simply because they came out first. And the thing with the moba is that, the more you’ve invested in a game (time, money) the harder for you to let go of it (along with all the cosmetics you have earned/bought over the years).
Therefore, if you keep insisting on those changes, do the community a favor and get out. Never show your face here again, ever.
1 Like
If its the case of people pushing as 5 all the way to the core then this would actually decrease the time of games. Not that this is what I would want, but even with HoTS as it currently is…some HGC games ended up going this way. Ive seen the Morales Medivac to the keep, then core and a game finish in like 6 minutes.
The point being that players are going to do stuff like that already. Even without Morales, you have Greymane for siege, a healer, and Anub to spawn beetles to soak towers and siege up on a fort. What happens? Either the enemy team responds appropriately or they dont. Nothing would really change.
Abathur would be just like he is now (from my understanding). Soaking a lane with your body counts toward exp gain. Soaking with a symbioted target counts. And soaking with Locusts counts toward exp. If anything Abathur might even need to be nerfed because of how effective he could level and be in team fights during the objectives.
The Lost Vikings would all level at the same rate equally. The three vikings would share exp, as they are technically the same “hero” split into three. You wouldnt have Olaf more leveled than Erik.
I do agree to an extent about stealth heroes who might be sitting in a bush to give information or disrupt rotations. However, I do wonder about what the average statistical difference is between kills that someone like Zeratul participates in and someone like Sylvanas. Would Zeratul end up getting more exp through kills in early game ganks than Sylvana would from soaking?
I dont have an answer to that because I dont know what the leveling would really look like.
It would be something they could test internally though and see if there was a huge disparity between heroes. They do this sort of testing all the time on a smaller scale when they rework heroes or create new ones. They also did a lot of this type of internal testing when they were creating the PBMM. Its not beyond looking at to see how things would change.