Shared experience is counterproductive

General Discussion
21

Having shared XP means you can have heroes who dont lane all game and can have serious contribution to the game and arent outmatched late game. I hate in Dota 2/LOL being a suplort and free kills to the farmed enemy heroes and have to hide for half the match.

3 Likes
22

No, I mean in that the biggest advantage Vikings offer is constant lane pressure, especially when an objective is up and their team is geared towards being four down. They are able to give their team a sizable experience advantage over the enemy team if played right. Removing shared experience would remove that advantage with them only being able to make themselves stronger and offer not much else beyond possibly taking camps.

Even if TLV has 3-4 levels over the enemy team they will still suffer from small health pools, being vulnerable to AoE damage, and unless all three are in the same lane their damage is lackluster.

I just do not see how removing shared experience would benefit TLV or any other hero who has good wave clear and is decent at soaking experience. Removing shared experience would also make heroes that are extremely pitiful at wave clearing to suffer as a result.

3 Likes
23

Ive moved from Silver to Plat and I still get people who dont draft well, feed, afk camps or push at inopportune times. I dont really see where the point is when I will improve enough to not be grouped with these players.

24

Until your team feeds it away cause they insta tilted because you picked TLV, “help” you soak and constantly engage 4v5.

25

It would be improved according to you. Other people would find your “improvement” to be a flaw. You are the one asking for the game to be changed according to your desires not me.

1 Like
26

I realize that this is shared exp…among those who are near minions who die…not among the whole team. The entire team shared exp is what Im saying should change.

27

How would such a reward look like though? If you remove team XP and make it an individual thing, most of the supports and some heroes like Aba would be dead in an instant, because most of them lack the PvE damage to farm XP

5 Likes
28

Thats why you post ideas on the forum. Not everyone has all the answers. This is why you get feedback and hope people dont just tell you “welcome to humanity” because you have an idea they dont like.

I realize that my initial post didnt clarify this enough. I edited it in the first paragraph to clarify. Basically if you are in lane when a minion dies then you get the exp for the kill. You dont need to last hit. This means that you can couple your healer in a lane with a hero who does have waveclear. It also means that if a healer does need to they can allow the towers to kill the minions and still get the exp.
As far as Abathur…as long as his body, or “hat” are present in lane (same as it is now) when the minions die then he gets exp. I think even if his Locust is present he gets exp? (I dont know how that works currently).

29

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad. They would have to remake the entire game to accommodate your stupid idea. Again you are the one asking that the entire game be changed to fit your desires. Welcome to the real world kid.

1 Like
30

Disagree

Yes, it may have worked in DotA/LoL but at the end of days shared XP is kinda part of this game’s flare/fun

The problem lies somewhere else tbh, have said/posted like 50 times now not gonna repeat again I guess

2 Likes
31

Too long, didn’t read all of it, but from what I read, I figured that I don’t agree with you :stuck_out_tongue:
While now you can (f. ex) send 4 players to obj, and leave 1 to soak, if individual exp is implemented, players are less likely to attend the obj. Especially those who “want to carry”.

2 Likes
32

Bad players in Silver are not the bad players of Platinum. Bad sliver players will never make it to platinum. They lack the basic skill of looking at their maps.

But the point is, shared xp HELPS to do this.

2 Likes
33

Youre the one acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum because you dont like my idea. Welcome to the world “kid.”

34

Lot.

I think the bottom line is that Blizzard will never change the xp system. It’s part of their design philosophy. And since it’s part of what drew people to the game, with different maps and other aspects. They would lose players if they changed it.

They don’t stand to gain much by becoming a more generic MoBa. Anything that can be a reason for a player to decide to play HotS will never be changed.

4 Likes
35

the functional issue of a trying to shift away from shared exp is all of the resource management of the game comes down to the interaction players have with how they acquire more ‘power’

in dota/lol, gold and exp are hinged around last-hit priorities and the distribution of that can be attain in lanes, in jungles, and misc other positions: there are things to do to split their focus to contest the acquisition of more xp/gold to stand out from the other players.

If xp is by proximity only, with few other outlets, and thus divided for individual effect (instead of not split) then the resources available in game become a competition between the group: specific heroes demand more resources to have the impact to stand out better than others and having another hero around mitigates the amount they can soak themselves: it encourages more internal frustration by competition for power if no other resources become available.

While in some cases, the min/max dynamics of organized play could stand out (ie, trying to rush xp for whiteman to get 4 for mana talents) and encourage select heroes to want to sit the solo, it also means that certain split-push heroes essentially ‘hog’ the xp resources and just become a dynamic of themselves and essentially cripple their own team by not spread enough xp.

by having shared xp, heroes that split offer resources to other teammates that wouldn’t exist in the system you thus want to acclaim to be “better”: there has to be an complete overhaul to how xp is attained, how many resources there are to divide it, and it creates tiers of prioritizes for internal conflict where ‘essential’ roles become second-class contributions in the race to hit specific power points that elevate certain heroes over others.

support/carry dynamics work for games like dota because of a combination of the number of resources available, the demand for collective resoruce drains on the whole team (someone has to ward/dust/etc) and the capacity for some heroes to have one-pick wonders on their talent tree to allow them to still contribute with lower-ranked abilities while also having the item pool to compensate for power differences between allies.

The current maps don’t provide enough resources for select individuals to not compete; the talent system is designed around team dynamics in limited roll allotment for specific power spikes, and there is no other power/resource dynamic to compensate for that difference.

It would be an entire overhaul to essentially create a different game that shifts hero power and growth, map resources, objectives and the interactions between teammates.

3 Likes
36

I see your point that HoTS is a different style of moba. Its got different maps. It has objectives that affect the outcome of the game. Its a nice game and I personally wouldnt play a game like League because I enjoy HoTS.
That being said, HoTS can, and has, changed over the years. We used to have HGC and now we dont. Thats a massive change and I dont see it as a good one. You can still maintain HoTS identity of being different while still having some aspects of other games.
Recently Ive been watching some of the former HoTS streamers play LoL. Its funny because chat calls the champions in LoL by names of HoTS heroes based on the similarities of abilities. Ive seen “Li-Ming”, “Leoric”, “Azmodan”, etc. LoL also has “bosses” that you can capture and they go down the lane just like HoTS. A game can still be similar to others while maintaining its own flavour. We would still have different maps. We would still have talents, which I like a lot instead of items. We still have objectives that impact the game in a big way.

They might actually stand to gain a lot by becoming more like those who have been successful in the realm of mobas, while maintaining their own niche.

If I get you right your thinking that 2 players soaking in the same lane would essentially have to split the exp from dying minions?
If thats what you understood me to say, thats not what I meant. It would be that you both get the full exp from the minions, not that you have to split it.

1 person in lane. A minion dies and gives 40 exp to that player.
2 people in lane. A minion dies and gives 40 exp to each player.

37

yeah…right…i future with new Game Director…maybe they will change this.I Did proposal already at them these ideas :

and like limit deaths to 20 times for over 10 deaths ,Ranked is locked until this requeiment 50 played Unranked games.This punishment or learn to survive in Unranked maybe can learn players do not die over 10 times.Can be make it for an axample for 1 season,after start new season would be reset.Or without for 1 season.Or can ne make it heavy punishment 100 played Unranked games .Then how such terrible players can enter often in Ranked ,when be forced to play Unranked?! :slight_smile:

This my reply is clue with this topic.
There is onther quests mechanigs how make our players start play better.They plan do add Ranked quests.Such Ranked quests can be created for hard achievements,like for an axample for every class or heros ,must complete xxx dmgs,heal,xp, many kills , with less deaths ,assist .For an axample for 100 ,200,300 win games and with awesome rewards like mouths,skins like now current payment models with shard,gems ,but would be saparated and different models from payment one.I know such numbers requeiments ranked quests are so hard to be defite,what exactly to be.

38

HGC being cancelled doesn’t actually affect gameplay though.

2 Likes
39

it was only part of the consideration I posted in regards for your suggestion: the rest of the post is more concerned about any sweeping changes to the resource/power dynamic as isn’t particular to just split xp.

If xp isn’t split, then the best way to get xp leads is going to have as many heroes near the dying minions as they can get: that means ‘specialist’ heroes are detracting from the team power by splitting off and/or killing minions before the rest of the team gets there. That reinforces the concern of having passive off-lanes that want to stall minions and avoid clashes in favor of safe rotations.

a team that rotates together would want to emphasize collective xp (where possible) and the solo that can’t get along could push too far… that would also mean that first objective clashes may end up costing more players more exp than the first iteration of the new tower changes, which favored skipping the clash to rotate heroes to soak xp.

While the effect of ‘who’ is a ‘second class’ role shifts between what I suggested in one example versus the other one, the effect still pronounces liabilities to team cohesion in way that detracts from current hero balance and appeal.

40

That’s a people problem, not a system problem.

1 Like