Shared experience is counterproductive

Edit Through my discussions with players on this thread I have come to realize that having a pure individual exp system would create unfix-able problems. As a result, I have come up with what I consider to be a compromise which would still achieve the goal of better games without leading to unfix-able problems.
I put this edit in for posterity sake and to give context to some of the discussions which have taken place already on this thread.
I will now edit my original post to reflect this change in idea.
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People have been calling for individual reward in this game for a really long time. A lot of people thought that PBMM was going to fix things, but its not even going to make it into game in an impactful way now. All of the clamoring for individual reward based on personal contribution comes from a place of frustration on the part of players who do play vastly better than their teammates at times and are tired of these lopsided matches which have become a normal occurrence. PBMM might have no real effect, but individual contribution can still be felt with an alteration to shared experience.

What is the current effect of shared exp in HotS?
Pure shared experience allows for a mismatch of players with regard to game knowledge and skill.
It creates a dysfunctional system where you have feeders, those who dont soak, those with bad map awareness, those who go to objectives at all times without exceptions no matter what is going on on the map or what lvls the teams are…and it joins these players with those who do soak, dont feed, and do know when to do an objective and when to give it up.

How does pure shared exp group these players?
The bad player is kept from sliding down by the good players efforts. The good player is kept from advancing by the bad player. Thus you continue to have a slow moving system which keeps the better and worse players grouped together with each other.
There is a systemic problem with pure shared experience because it keeps these good and bad players grouped up in the same ranks together. Both players keeping each other from either sinking or rising.

The idea: Dynamic Shared Experience
With dynamic shared experience a player would not gain any experience as long as they were dead. With one exception listed below.
Example:
Your team is level 3 and you die while trying to get that globe for your quest. When you are dead your team levels up to level 4. At the time that you spawn you will still be level 3. Now that you are alive you will once again be able to gain from shared experience.
Exception: Gaining exp while dead
There would be one situation where you could gain experience when dead. If you died during a fight where you had participated in doing damage (or healed those who did damage) in a fight which resulted in killing the enemy.
I know that Blizz already has the ability to track such statistics. They already know who was the “team scrapper”, “clutch healer”, etc.

Dynamic shared experience would work to encourage personal accountability.
How would it do this?
1. It would encourage more tactical engages. If you knew that you could kill the enemy (especially with a roaming ganker), then you could weigh the likelihood of securing the kill or back out if you knew you could not trade into the enemy. Higher personal cost for dying. Higher reward for killing them.
2. If you noticed that you were constantly the lowest leveled player on your team then you might make adjustments to your gameplay so that you didnt die as often. This would result in a better playerbase.
3. Map awareness among players should increase if they begin to feel the sting of their own neglect. No one to give you exp while your waiting to spawn. With this increased map awareness should come better pings and communication among teammates who are now becoming aware of the larger picture.

Shared exp encourages people to play more recklessly because there is no personal consequence for doing so. This leaves players who do play responsibly to pick up the slack for their failing teammates. And at some point, you need to pay too much of a price for others bad choices and not gain a personal advantage for doing so. It has the affect of lowering overall player moral. And it also allows a breeding ground for bad personal gameplay.

Implementing a change like this would have a short term unsettling consequence for the players. However, it would result in long term health because it would eventually move players of differing skill into higher or lower ranks based on their repeated gameplay at a sharper rate.
The players who die more often would lose more often and no one could carry them to an undeserving win. As a result the worse players would fall in ranks faster than they currently do.

I hope that Blizz realizes that players like me and those who wanted PBMM actually enjoy this game a lot and want to see it do well. This is why we want a healthier game that rewards those who do well and penalizes those who do not do well (including ourselves when we fail).

A lot of us are tired of lopsided wins and losses. When I get a lopsided win and it asks me to rate how much fun I had during that game I always put 1 star. I dont have fun stomping a lesser skilled team. This happens so often that it has become the expected “norm” for HotS games. Its a great game, but has a deadly flaw.

The goal of socialism:
Equality of outcome.
The effect of shared exp:
Equal outcomes. No matter if Im a good player or a bad player I get a win or a loss just the same.

Look on Twitch. HotS has a pitiful amount of viewers when compared to other MOBA’s. Its not because HotS is less interesting. In fact, HotS is far more interesting…there must be some other problem.
HotS has different maps which alter strategies for playing. It has objectives which work to collide the teams together all throughout the game. It has instant power gains through talents instead of needing to hearth every 3 minutes to buy another item.
HotS is a superior game…with an Achilles heel (bad matchmaking which is caused by shared experience).

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Kill skilled individualism -> Make game accessible to children -> Clown fiesta is born

This works with games that don’t really require you to use your brain like WoW, but not in games that traditionally require high skill to exceed which helps define the genre. Overwatch is next with how they’re rebalancing the game as if HotS was teaching them.

If Blizzard wants to make successful games for both children and adults, perhaps they should take a peek at what Nintendo is doing. Over here in HotS, you could randomly point at any 2 places in the game and it’ll show they weren’t sure exactly where they wanted to go with something.

No all-in, but just weird mixes of cold and hot, or night and day that makes ya go hmmm. Actually, the only all-in was outside the game with the whole esports thing.

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This is why Dota 2 exists. HOTS did something different from LOL and Dota 2 at the same time.

Also, split pushing does give more exp. Play TLV in each lane and you will have 2-4 level lead. Having your ult that much sooner gives a huge edge.

Edit: because of other edits: Stealth heroes and scouts that spend much of their time laying in wait or scouting mostly away from experience gains, are screwed. They even added a slow passive exp gain.

2nd Edit/Update: Thus far, everyone that is alive share the exp that is being earned (Basically how it works now). When dead, you don’t earn this shared exp. This essentially, in the OP’s eyes, makes the player be more aware and not throw themselves to die. It’s a bigger punishment, because you will be behind in levels. Balancing will need to be in place, like players dying to save the team, or perform a trade.

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When I started playing HoTS I didnt even know what a moba was. But after looking at games like Dota and LoL, Im really glad that HoTS doesnt have last hitting (aside from quests).
HoTS is a different game than Dota and LoL. That doesnt mean it cant share some similarities. Right now I think that you can easily say that Dota and LoL are at least more popular than HoTS - I think its due to the fact that those other moba’s reward individual effort more effectively.
Thats what HoTS should do.

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Shared exp could also be seen as a way to feed your entire team.

In a game like LoL, you could be very well fed but if your team isn’t then they are useless in almost every situation that isn’t being cannon fodder for you in the hope that you can 1vs5 after they died.

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I suppose if you want to make The Lost Vikings and to a lesser extent the other heroes with good soaking potential less effective/obsolete then why not?

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There’s already games that have what you’re asking for why don’t you play them?

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I dont like last hitting. I like talents instead of items. I like the objectives. I like the different map variety. HoTS has a lot over the other mobas, but they really lack in individual reward/punishment.

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And there are people that like shared experience but don’t like one or two things that you like. Everyone is different welcome to humanity.

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I dont think you understand. It wouldnt make them obsolete. It would make them viable in a different way. Their soaking potential would then be called upon to be used in team fights, or used as an overwhelming siege force that would require response from the enemy. It would discourage “solo play” and encourage group play.

I don’t see what prevents a player from feeding without shared xp.

Shared xp also allows you to make up from your teamates mistakes when you get value and gain xp for everyone.

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You come across as someone who doesnt realize that others have differing opinions, while espousing that people are diverse. Maybe you should be “welcomed to humanity” and realize that a game can be improved and not meet all of YOUR desires.

This sentence right here makes me confused over your entire main post as a result.

You do not like last hitting.

But also as a result last hitting removes the whole concept of shared XP.

Therefore last hitting should be a thing to promote individual xp.

But you don’t like it…

???

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It actually wouldnt prevent it. Feeding has its place in HoTS as it does in any game…in lower leagues. Those players would sink to lower leagues and be separated from those who do not feed and play well.

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So you mean to tell me the hero(es) who are about as sturdy as a bunch of wet noodles in the current state of the game, who require a tremendous amount of skill to be even remotely efficient, and currently whose only good role right now is soaking will suddenly become better after having their biggest advantage taken away from them?

Maybe I am missing something here, but that does not sound like a good change to me.

Okay. If I understand what your saying correctly…you think that last hitting is what would grant the actual exp?
If so, this isnt what I meant. You only need to be in proximity of the dying creep in order to gain the exp for it. You wouldnt need to get the last hit.

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They do man.

I’ve improved, I climbed. The people I hated to have on my team have not. Unless they change the way they play, they never will.

Instead of killing myself, or sitting in front of the objective looking at the enemy team. I go for the weakest structure and take it down, get xp, bring us closer to level parity, and creates lane pressure.

Shared xp doesn’t prevent me from doing this. If the XP was applied only to myself. I’d be a lone Lvl 10 hero with four lvl 8-9 teamates, and we still couldn’t teamfight on even grounds.

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I didnt say they would become better. I said they wouldnt become obsolete. How is it that they would become obsolete? Vikings would still share exp among the other vikings. Were you thinking that they would level independent?

So basically you mean if I exists and do no damage but I was close to the takedown I get the XP?

That’s… still shared XP.

But then you completely destroy the point of the solo lane and they become so weak and can’t keep up with the rest of the 4 other heroes.

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Problem is Dota 2 and LOL are MUCH older. LOL basically is a copy of Dota 2. Having HOTS does the same only means you will HAVE to last hit things to get credit for the EXP.

Currently, things in HOTS are balanced where you will most of the time die easily when out numbered. If your hero is a counter to other heroes you can maybe get away killing two from full health mind you.

This also changed the style of HOTS completely. It will just be a Dota 2 clone. No last hitting and individual exp levels are the things that make HOTS unique. This also encourages team play and being much smarter in terms of what you should be doing in the current situation.
Why even have 5 players to a team if everyone is thinking about themselves soloing, kill stealing, and showing up their own teammates?
Why have tanks and healers, which the other games don’t have? This also makes HOTS a unique platform for a different playstyle.

The environment is slightly different because not one player is the best, because they depend on the rest of the team to succeed. Dota 2’s best player can fight a full team and win while the rest of the team looks and feels useless. In HOTS, this scenario is not possible.

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