Idk Minky, when people explicitly say that they throw games I don’t feel like that should be justified just because its in this thread. I agree that anything knowledge or skill based should be left out of the hands of criticism… but intentionally throwing? I would draw the line somewhere near that.
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Could post a standalone… Li-Ming is worse than Nova.
While I have a 55.6% winrate in QM (including bad times), I also have a steady 37% winrate with her in SL. My last SL win? March 2022. QM MMR 2764, SL MMR 2021.
It’s possible that I pick her as a last resort when outdrafted, so she is just basically eating all losses.
Like, for real, what would you pick in this match instead of Ming? (Not saying Ming is good, but simply replace her, and only her.)
https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/Single/?replayID=47460565
While writing this post I’m pondering second healer. Every dd is countered, we had two solo laners, tanks are cute but, and Lucio didn’t succeed keeping anyone alive including himself while Garrosh was quite survivable.
If you feel advanced, check my hero page and rule out everything I can’t play.
Garrosh is a tank that wants burst dps. Otherwise, when he throws someone into his team, the target just walks away.
Garrosh is also a Tank that has limited peel. And the enemy team has an Illidan. This means Illidan can pretty much run amok in the backline mostly unpunished. (It looks like this is what happened since he had 16 kills that game)
This also means that If Garrosh throws anyone but Tassadar at your team, you and Nazeebo risk getting killed. Double mage is a very dangerous way to go against Varian and Illidan.
I think I would have gone for Tychus, Valla (Q build) or Sylvanas.
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Think the weak point in your team against that comp isn’t necessarily Ming, but more so Garrosh, but I get that was an earlier pick. He has pretty terrible flip targets considering the enemy front line.
As a healer main, I definite have leanings towards double healer comps. I think a BW would have been good, but she was banned. Since LiLi was last pick, she actually would have been one of my picks against Illidan, Varian, and Tass. Auriel with blind and pushback and Malf would have been decent in that comp, and you have a pretty good record with Malf.
You probably would have gotten crazy amount of roots to stack treant quests and if the Lucio was good, could keep you up to do nightmare. Just have to pray that the Lucio can keep you alive if you get focused.
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Q Ming and rolling thunder on Thrall were fantastic choices, but both completely messed up by not taking earthquake and knockback. How else do you survive against a brute force frontline? Completely nonsensical for Nazeebo to even consider going Zombie Wall build against Illidan+Varian team.
Their melee get completely neutered through Garrosh Decimate. I don’t understand going for Oppressor instead of Intimidation - if he decides to chase after Tassadar, his own team gets destroyed, it makes no sense. Earthshaker at 16 would have been nice as well, to stop LiLi’s jugs channeling. No Body Check at lvl 1 either. Without watching the replay, it appears as if he was using E+Q combo to pad damage or shield himself, rather than control the divers. Indomitable didn’t find too much use either because enemy team have no roots. I believe with the nature of enemy team damage delivery method and his own tools against them, he was personally never in danger of dying.
If Garrosh picked differently, Lucio could have played High Five with which at lvl 20 they would even gain a healing received debuff against Varian and Illidan, who are already dealing 40% less damage, have their attack speeds reduced and generally can’t chase anybody because they are permanently slowed. I’m not saying sound shield ult is useless, but it is very hit or miss against Varian who can instantly break it. So many wrong choices in my opinion.
Whether the winning team made any mistakes is irrelevant, not because they were objectively better but because there were none to be made. Whatever other choice they had wouldn’t have made the game significantly easier.
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I find it funny that people still waste bans on KT. Its not 2014 anymore where he was broken.
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It still a DPS with a baseline stun.
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Apart from my even worse winrates on those (25-35%) 
I was looking at Varian and Illidan, on top of Li Li blinds and Tassadar distance. Agreed about your standard note on double mage. Although, it could have been taken further by replacing the dreadlord with Medivh for 100% avoidance uptime.
Interesting that you didn’t shun the idea. So it may have worked. 
(During draft I didn’t consider it, at all.)
Li Li sounds good, yes. A bit worried about Malf, given phase’s true comment about Illidan. But the two heals could have added up nicely. And the throw roots. Except for no damage. Who knows.
I did for a while but like with Jaina Ring I gradually got really worse and eventually ended up with a preference for Disintegrate. Great waveclear, great catch chance. Will try to remember it’s an option and practice it a bit.
As for watching the replay, not necessary much, I certainly could have played better, too, mechanically (hitting more). Illidan was an absolute expert in dodging everything. We just got lucky with a base defense. My hero damage was pathetic for a very long time. I have the excuse of Protected and Blinded, but still.
I get the consolation though that you’re pointing out build errors, so maybe I didn’t single handedly throw it 
To be fair, I felt like I’m target banned-counterpicked.
Other than that, I made it to almost-bronze and Living Bomb is annoying, especially when melee heavy. And the objective requires a brawl.
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Playing Tychus with Garrosh is easy though. Wait for Garrosh to throw, press D and right click.
Same with Valla, Wait for throw. Q, E Q, profit.
Sylv takes a bit more work, and she’s good for the comp once she reaches 10.
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I would still take it on maps where range matters, such as Bell objectives or Prisons on AV where you normally can’t reach the other side of the wall, but knocking everyone to the edge of the screen with lvl 20 upgrade is best you can do against agile melees. Chain together with Earthquake that shields each tick and you can’t lose if you funnel them into a favorable position where your back is against the wall.
Spammable spells and passive bonuses are usually more attractive, but the impact of special abilities, on-use buttons and utility is much greater than the difference lost in damage padding.
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In fact I took time to watch the replay. Aphandra’s team is objectively better. Other team is too reliant on autoattacks and gets little benefit from their own dodge and blind.
No one impressed me in any way and Garrosh is doing just what I expected, charging head first into the enemy file while his own back line is suffering. That standard need to do more damage in order to win mentality without understanding what makes his team stronger or how to win in the long run.
Throwing enemies around into his own players, wasting Q on an irrelevant amount of damage. Should have not extended ever and focused on throwing enemies away from your own players while keeping teams separate. Do this long enough and you win by default.
Disastrous finale, ringed the dinner bell with your own bruisers and no one bothered to check bush closest to the boss. This is where the lack of a healing reduction talent loses you the game with low health Illidan distracting three of your players for 15 full seconds.
If you are going to play Warbreaker (only 13/15 here lol), do it in Aram where no one will be brave enough to pick Illidan with Battered assault. In cases such as this, you absolutely need Body Check to kill him late in the game.
Small observation, Fireflies would have worker better than Mirrorball. With your build, projectile speed and frequency of casts matters more over a slightly higher initial burst of damage.
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Possibly I rarely take it, sometimes merrily. The main reason against it is how it changes the aiming. I had 15 levels to practice Q and now it’s different. But I agree it could help against Illidan and Varian dodges.
I default to Mirrorball because I am usually relegated to a hybrid role - just like my Tassadar is not an assasin but a generic pusher - and it helps taking down forts, bosses and even camps. Plus, if I actually manage to hit things, it melts tanks.
It might actually be an explanation why I work better in QM - I am still a solo laner on Tassadar, Ming, Jaina, with the option to jump into a teamfight and kick butt. In SL, it’s a bit one dimensional. PvE with a bruiser or PvP.
When we were 9.0 vs 10.0, later 14.0 vs 16.0, I thought it was over. Maybe what you observed is that our team did have execution potential, but due to the level deficit, we reliably failed. The difference per level doesn’t sound much but it is, it’s heaven or hell. Especially the Illidan design, it just adds up: health pool, damage, leech.
Regarding myself, I kept trying hitting things but I knew that it will get blocked by minions, protected or blind. Whatever didn’t, got healed instead. I have this fairly often in QM, gotta love the Varian-Medivh combo. So I just accepted.
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I agree. The trouble with calling out someone who does that kind of thing, is it just boosts them in the thread to the point where it becomes all that’s being discussed.
Most people who throw feel so justified in doing so, they almost always triple down on it and never admit fault. I do, however, concede your point.
I guess I just miss a time when this thread was fun and more lighthearted, lt’s becoming more and more centered around bickering, which perhaps is another symptom of a game that isn’t being actively developed.
A KT ban is probably fine the lower down the ranks you are, but personally I think in Silver/Bronze a ban on Azmodan, The Butcher or even Nazeebo will probably have more value. I have a friend who recently climbed out of Bronze to Gold by teaching himself how to play Kerrigan, Illidan, Greymane and the Butcher, apparently dive can be king if you have the micro skills to back it up.
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It’s weird as a first ban, but if you know you’re gonna devise a heavy melee comp, it’s not really a bad idea.
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Ye I get that low rank players still stuggle againts him. Properly also why people ban specific heroes that are strong in that rank. But all in all KT as a hero is pretty weak compared to other mages. He has no escape and his only stun he need to aim and can easy miss it and his living bomb range force him to go into melee range to throw it so melee/tanks can easy get over him the sec he does it.
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I agree with all your points, that’s why I said at low ranks people would probably get more value from banning/playing Azmodan. Probably KT’s bomb and how many players love to hug each other and spread it is the gimmick that makes him “seem” strong and worthy of a ban.
As Fan and other players have shown time and again, if you have superior micro skills, you won’t stay in low ranks for long.
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100% this. People still dont trust thier own allies to not spread the bombs if you are clustered in a tight area. Then its just easier to just ban him and avoid the frustration.
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I’m part of the Train Sim forums, you know a very serious game.
(Actually…)
Anyway, I noticed over the past few months there that people are a lot less friendly. Might be the winter, or some general sourness. Pecking at the devs about the tiniest details - and without any reason to be raging like here. Long term disappointment, sure.
It’s almost like during the pandemic people forgot how to talk to each other without being a capital A.
Consequently, one of the best devs just left the forums really sad and even took a break to take a breath.
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I wouldn’t discount the pandemics impact on human behaviour, it no doubt had long term social and mental health implications for many people.
It would seem most fandoms are pretty nuts online, no matter how “serious” a piece of media is. I often wonder when the Devs have frequently said the Hots community is “passionate” if that’s an ironic-backhanded compliment/insult.
I’ve never met people face to face who express their fandom for media so, um, passionately as I’ve seen online. Furthermore, I hope most of the black and white extreme views of art mostly resides in its online bubble. I often use my mother as barometer for such things, so often an issue which seems so important and omnipresent online, my mother will be completely unaware of it. Usually, these “issues” rarely translate to the real word at all.
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Not looking good.
(Yes, Lili took Water dragon…)
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