This comes back to my point of allowing players to group 3 ranks apart. How did that player get to that rank? Often the answer can be because they were boosted to that rank by players of higher skill and rank. You then get that “Gold” player, who is now playing solo and plays like a Silver 5, as that’s what they would naturally be if they hadn’t been boosted to their rank.
I’m pretty sure you know I’m quite pragmatic about why we can’t have solo queue ranked and group only ranked. I understand all too well that the numbers of active players have fallen that such things can’t exist anymore without unacceptable queues. It still doesn’t mean I have to like it though.
But I wouldn’t say that this is the result of the rule that players within 3 leagues can play with each other, maybe a tiny bit. For the reasons: game is smurf infested and higher league players creates a lot of smurfs (Ngin has 8) or others to play with their friends. That means, if we would remove the 3-league-rule it wouldn’t change anything, because bads will play with smurf friends and get boosted again. This was an issue since HL and TL got merged into SL, that’s the real cause.
It would, you can’t rank a new account any higher than Gold 5, with the majority of new accounts landing in Silver. A Diamond player can’t group with a Silver, so they can’t artificially boost this account.
If you remove the ability of people to group three ranks apart, that means even less chance of boosting players. As we have the system we have now, which is essentially a version of Team League, sure players should be able to group, but limit the rank spread to a difference of one. This still allows Master friends to group with their Diamond friends as an example, but would mean less boosting of players and less MMR averaging that needs to be done in ranked matches.
As ranked is supposed to be competitive, in theory you want people to be as close together in rank as possible so very little MMR averaging needs to be done to balance both teams.
He don’t need to, he just make a smurf account, problem solved. In fact your idea would just increase the amount of smurfs, because high ranked people want to play with their low-ranked buddys.
I don’t see how it would solve the problem. Only my proposal of seasonal rank resets like in HS would truly solve the problem and keep th higher ranks fresh from boosted players, because only good players will be there, otherwise I don’t see how to solve this, except you want to ban smurfs, but I personally wouldn’t like it, because smurfs are needed with this reportsystem.
It’s not about the amount of smurfs, ranked is supposed to be the competitive mode where people of similar rank (skill) are matched as closely as possible with and against other players of the same rank and skill.
You can now have a three rank spread, which means more MMR averaging, more uncertainty in matchmaking and often can lead to more uneven games and stomps. At least from my experiences of playing ranked since launch, SL is far less balanced (see quality matches) than HL ever was. It much more resembles Team League now, which was always considered a joke.
There is a reason Froggy often talks about “boosted master” players. This system allows for that to happen, where in the past someone couldn’t group at all, so had to have the skills to climb from silver to master. Now you can have “fake” masters as Frogsaron often calls them out to be.
This would be completely fine if this was URD, but it’s supposed to be the competitive ladder. We will have to just agree to disagree on this point.
Sorry this is a contradiction, because it can’t be a comp mode where people of similar rank are matched, when you encourage higher elo players to create smurf with friends. It’s no difference to what we have now, except now as a gold player you could see a player, who has a “diamond icon” attached to his name, while with your idea you would just see a low account with low level number, but big winrate. Just remember that even players like Ngin, who says he is a master and hates smurfing, he has already 8th accounts!!! Your idea would increase this problem.
Yes and this would be still a thing, because smurfs can boost others. I don’t see how you change it, if you remove the 3-league-rule, but you will just increase the smurf amount.
Only with seasonal resets you would destroy smurfs and fake masters, because they have to climb themselves every season back and that’s too much of an effort to do, even though they would get “bonus points” for their previous season, but I highly doubt that players would do it and most would be end up in bronze or silver. Except the players, who are willing to play and are good would reach their ranks back.
We aren’t even far from our points, because we want the same, but our ideas how to solve it are different. I don’t see how your idea solves anything.
Game 1: convinced hoku it wouldn’t be the worst idea in the world to play with me at 1 am. Braxis holdout and my two best healers got banned. Played morales. Kept up with enemy dmg for most of game but wasn’t playing particularly well. Our kt/zj had half enemy’s dmg and less dmg than our artanis (unfortunately not hoku). Zj tried to blame the tank and recieved a very strongly worded message from me after the game.
Game 2: Got lucky with a trio. They played chogal and carried me. I kept up my soak/camp with malthael but I was certainly not the reason we won, just played well enough to not throw. Hope they understood how well they played to compensate.
Yes and for me it was proof that MM or player MM is broken. If I got highest MMR should I not rank up and then have lowest MMR? It made no sense to get way over 50% Lead role, my reaction was too often very spicy? as a result 8(
In theory if I was that good I should have easily ranked up, but I did not. Then again considering my mentor could not be bothered to leave Bronze, cause he was unwilling to grind yeah. my experience will be denoted as anecdotal.
I agree with Yusuke. It can be extremely difficult to reach the correct rank. When its a team game you and get players that literally have little to no idea.
“Git good and carry” is also laughable in my opinion or why did they hard code players into correct ranks back in the day? No one ever has anything to say on this. For me that is proof that the argument you are quickly where you belong is wrong.
Also till above Gold, the team that feeds less on average loses, there is little you can do. And please stop with bronze to Grand-Master in one season arguments. If they are truly not grouped its an enormous grind, and second think what you just wrote, Think on it.
Good news for me, I don’t have to “think on it” as I never made such claims about Bronze to GM challenges. They sure prove someone who already has the skill of a GM can carry themselves easily to higher ranks, but naturally, of course they should be able to.
Climbing to your true rank, especially solo can take a ton of time. I don’t expect you to be aware of all the discussions between Yusuke and I, but we have agreed more on this issue than not. Yusuke proposed that people who go on win streaks should be rewarded with more points to move them up the ladder faster to where they should be, I agree with this.
I think you have misread, or misunderstood my musings on ranked and ranking up. I in fact agreed with you that you shouldn’t be the top MMR on your team more than 50% of the time. As I said though, this is in big part due to a lower player population in ranked, so what can be done about that?
Dual bruiser and tank aren’t that bad though. I recently created a topic, where pros only had an assa (Junkrat) too. The only thing I am scared about is probably Valla (who missed to ban her?), but otherwise you’re comp isn’t bad. And since they have beefy heroes, you’re also kinda assassine like with Malt.
Funfact it’s amusing to see that you’re the only one, who is using voice chat - Raging about your team?
The thing is Phase’s game isn’t with a pro team. I agree almost any draft can work, but only if each player is more skilled with their hero to overcome the strength of the enemy draft. This doesn’t happen often in my experience.
I would not agree that all of us conveniently bunching up against a valla and an Azmodan is a good idea. It was a free stack fest for them, (Especially since I was the only one who bothered dodging Azmodan’s Q)
Though the Rexxar trying to solo the boss at any given time (including when we were 5 vs 4) did not help.
Doing the wrong thing with your team doesn’t work out.
And as always, we lost structures for free because people thought taking a merc camp was more important. It’s ok, our forts will grow back.
In my experiene, double bruiser is never good with randoms.
I asked for the ban, they banned Gazlowe instead, and one of our guy thought he was going to get Valla when the enemy had 1st pick.
With dual bruisers and your team let it happen still? You’re unlucky, but hey my team in my last game were no better. We got D.Va, Anub and Gazlowe with Valla (me) on top vs Aba+Ilidan and Artanis frontline, they still fail to defend structures… and just hang around bot and do nothing. I don’t want to talk about teamfights it was absolutely awful.
Well we have different experience then, because I played many successful dual bruiser comps (usually with Uther or Lucio as healer).
Pretty sure it was mostly the Uther carrying it. CC wins. And people will walk into Uther. Lucio speed ups also helps when your idiot team just won’t disengage when they should. (As long as the Lucio player knows to use speed and not healing)
But it feels like you don’t think any comp can be bad?
That’s to Yusuke, but I want my two cents! When it comes to draft comps, I always feel, why make it harder on yourself? As long as people can play their heroes, why draft four ranged heroes and one tank vs a dive comp? This happens to me often, I fill a tank and then I get four ranged heroes and they get surprised that I can’t peel for them vs a Genji/Tyrael with Judgment or a leap Sonya.
Often you will have people say “pros run Uther main tank”, well silver/gold/plat is not pro, so make it easy on yourself and draft a bit more sensibly. I think this helps too as it doesn’t end up tilting half the team when nobody drafts a healer for example.
Haven’t you read my complaints about Tank+bruiser vs single tank (usually in QM)? Another example could be two RA, bruiser and then someone comes with the idea to pick Abathur…
I dislike comps, where we have only a lot fragile assassines and no real frontline…
That one couldn’t even Uther protect, but he needs at least one another frontline. And that’s one would tilt me as well. I despite having only one frontline, but I don’t mind having two bruisers as them usually capable doing damage as well in addition to a tank with only one RA or MA.
And still you admit that it works, it just needs heroes that support this kind of playstyle. Tank isn’t mandatory, but a good frontline definitely is.
Oh I feel you on that :(I Especially when your team saw you pick Diablo. How can they think you can peel X4 with your Q?)
Yeah but in QM you don’t have a choice. You’re stuck with have the game gives you. (I guess the same can be applied to team mates lol).
The majority of my SL games without a tank were losses. I wouldn’t count in random SL players to support an unusual comp. I have won with “non-optimal” comps, but I usually had to thank the enemy mistakes for that. (Like the 11 deaths Diablo from my recent game)
I know what you mean, but where is the difference to the default setup?
This can be happen in your team as well… so what’s the difference? I would rather have bruiser players knows their role/hero than someone, who is forced to tank and fails hard. That’s why I don’t mind dual bruiser as frontline.
Thanks Hoku 
