Its very similar to Sylv’s old Posession in the huge displacement it provides.
There is nothing ‘skillful’ bout putting someone inside a wall and letting them get killed by towers. Its made worse when a hook means you can be hyperdisplaced AND then gobbled and put behind walls.
Its the main reason people take Gorge. The other times are to shutdown a hypercarry/healer. which is legit.
Its no fun to play against, and its barely skillful to use since its a melee P&C.
Anywho, i feel like a new Ult for him would be both better for playing and could be great too.
Id like to see it become like
“gorge a minion. Activate within 20 seconds while a minion is gorged to vomit infront of stitches, rooting enemies hit for 1.5 seconds. Every 5 seconds a minion is gorged, increase the radius by 25%”
Thematically cool, gives him a nice peel/setup/followup for hook.
If you face stitches, destroy one of the outer walls first (lowest hp of all structures). This makes you more likely to walk out. Just like garrosh and diablo this is a reliable method to reduce the effect of gorge a lot and can be prepared early in the game.
Make sure your team has counter CC. Stuns, slows, roots, displacements (both hostile and friendly) are very effective to stop gorge. Especialy anduin can be a major counter. If needed garrosh can even throw in a friendly minion to distract the fort/tower allowing you more time.
Force heavy offlane pushes. Spreading out the enemy force makes stitches a weak combat force (he has plenty of health, but combat wise generaly lacks, his hook often relies on follow ups).
If you are a melee hero with mobility to get out (for example like illidan), bait the stitches upon using his gorge on you to protect your teammates. When you expect a gorge, its much easier to get out afterward as you already planned some escape methods.
Dont stand close to walls if you dont know where stitches is. Just like garrosh and diablo this is the easiest method for them to get you over the gate and kill you there.
In draft you can even draft some hard counters to gorge:
Medivh (the portal negates the gorge) - bonus part: it prevents kidnap combos
Anduin (an unstoppable pull)
Mei, jaina (reliable slows)
Alarak (pulls the stitches backward. negating movement)
Any hero with mobility or stealth methods in order to get out or get ignored by towers allowing you to walk out of it.
Anubarak (good escapes, protects, and strong CC), can protect well, and has low melee risk as he can burrow away and soak tower shots with the beetles.
Tassadar: doesnt have to get close to stitches, and can place a wall to block him. The delay is not a problem as you can generaly just block the gate.
The only reason why stitches gets you behind his wall is because you made the mistake of getting too close in the first place.
His beetles also intercept hooks, so I typically go beetle build against a Stitches, and if I think he is fishing for a hook, I will use a W to spawn an extra beetle. And if you Cocoon a Stitches who just Gorged someone, he spits them back out instantly.
It was sole reason why my friend decided to main Stitches a year ago. Before rework he was offering absolutely nothing interesting and fun, being underwhelming tank with little to no peel. Majority of Stitches players used to play for Hook -> Gorge combo. Strip him off of this and the hero is dead.
Avoid hooks. It’s not that hard to do. And don’t get too close to him on the same principle as players avoid Garrosh.
If you really have problems with him, pick heroes capable of escaping from behind enemy structures. Examples include Fenix, Leoric, Genji, Sylvanas, Illidan, Samuro, Lunara, Li-Ming, Medivh, Brightwing, Zeratul…
Usually you can avoid being Gorged close enough to a wall.
In lane you hide behind minions to avoid Hooks.
At objectives you’re too far from a wall.
Often if you’re close enough to be Hooked, your allies should be close too, to help secure your escape.
The biggest difficulty is Medivh Portals, but it prevents him from using it to port in so makes an additional hero that isn’t using his abilities because of a long cooldown ult.
Gorge is so different from Putrid Bile that they don’t directly compete, it’s more a matter of preference or situation. I think that’s ideal. Don’t want to make Gorge into a ranged Bile…
I do appreciate that you took the time to write such a comprehensive reply.
In all fairness though - most of those are attempts to mitigate the damage done by the skill. These in turn can be mitigated by the stitches team.
I.e. have Medivh on your team for extra lols.
Hooks from odd angles.
I do really get what youre saying - and i appreciate it - i just think it sounds more excusatory that actually addressing the issue (a not too dissimilar issue to blitzcranks pull to core)
If you put it like that, does that not make every counter strategy unique to a hero an “excusatory” Response? I don’t wanna be that guy but maybe you have to get used to Gorge more and going up against it. Try being a Stitches with your walls down etc.
Yeah i suppose youre right.
Its just in this case its a guaranteed kill with a single character in a completely unfun way that simple involves pressing R on them, then walking over to your tower. If they havnt/cant escape then thats them toast.
I struggle to think of another skill with quite the same impact, inability to play against and works most of the time.
But maybe im just doing the same as people who QQ over butchs lamb haha
I covered up this one aswel. Its important to track the position of stitches, just like it is important against for example a nova. If you know where stitches is or can be, you can act against it. Suprise hooks arent effective if you are standing in a minion wave, as he more likely will pull a minion in. Staying back is a way to counter stitches.
Once you track stitches, medivh isnt going to add a lot more, because frontal hooks are unlikely (minions), and side hooks negate a lot of the potential distance anyway. And thats 2 heroes to cover just 1. Surely your team can compensate on other lanes then, even if you arent making progress on yours.
In higher skill levels gorge isnt only used for the threat directly, its also used as a zoning tool. Knowing stitches is nearby makes people hold back. And that is macro that is harder to pull off, yet is also effective.
Gorge realy doesnt have a big issue. Stitches is a tank that lacks a lot of peel for his team (as frontliner he simply cant peel with his hook), and as backliner, the team needs another frontliner. This is why strong CC is allowed on him, his own stengths also weaken him. This strong CC is the reason why stitches still works as a tank, as it applies zoning and protects his team that way.
And yes, during objectives minions wont be there to protect you, but most objectives are already at a safe enough distance from forts anyway.
If you arent paying attention to all counter methods this happens on several heroes. Most famous: pyroblast.
Stitches has more subtle counters, but there are still a lot of them.
i’m not into that kinda of fantasy but i do love being gorged by stiches as Cho’gall and then killing the over confident stiches and punishing him for his folley.
Edit:
Gorge has saved me almost as many times as it has killed me because people dont work as a team in qm and i get to avoid ults or big plays because of a gorge on stiches.
I’d agree with this if the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Stitches actually picked it. The main thing is that Gorge is mainly a tool in teamfights on objectives. And by that point, you’re not killing people with towers unless your Fort is still up, AND you’re doing the Medivh gimmick.
Exactly. The other aspect of Gorge that many have already pointed out, is it has a ton of counter play. Many times I haven’t taken Gorge as I know the enemy has a ton of stuns, roots or stasis effects that will most likely nullify the usefulness of that ULT.
