Li-Ming Hero Breakdown

Been a while since I made something like this, and personally I do not want to put insane effort in visuals as they can take couple of weeks of work, so I’m trying something a little different, simple format with a way of ranking. It’s kinda inspired from a DND guide I read couple of weeks ago.


Introduction

Li-Ming is a range assassin mage who specialises in snowballing a fight in her favor, when a kill happens you better start running. She’s really good in being a generalist mage and ending up one of the top tier assassins with a high skill floor for a good amount of reasons.

Li-Ming special trait is to “snowball” meaning if she gets kills she can capitalize on it to get more kills or flee to safety, allow her to be a risky finisher.

Her hard counters is that she fundamentally and in theory has no trait by design because it requires a condition to occur, meaning if it never happens then she’s never gonna capitalize on it. Otherwise, mana consumption is critical for her as she can easily run out of mana and even to a point she won’t capitalize on the trait depending on how much she has left, which causes her to both limit the snowball and the capitalization value.

Simply, if she gets no kills she’s just holding herself from reaching her potential. Additionally, summons and minions are your worst enemy and anything that can make you explode or locked and finally armor, you will hate it with a passion.

She’s also this good that all her scaling for her abilities improve less, in other words, she gets WORSE the farther you are in the late game.

A reminder, when you level up the scale improves every value by 4%, for Li-Ming:

  1. Q = 3.5%
  2. W = 3%
  3. E [Calamity] = 3%
  4. Both Heroics = +5%

Allies and Enemies

Considered a Generalist pick and highly favored for a lot of things, its difficult to specify counters for her, but in general Ana, Whitemane and any tank that locks down targets in any form of CC enables her to do a lot of stuff.

Her weakness comes from spell power reduction, armor and being caught for an opportunity kill.

Her trait is also her enemy if she isn’t getting kills, and her best ally when she is getting kills.


Abilities

:hourglass: Critical Mass

Getting a Takedown will refresh the cooldown on all of Li-Ming’s Abilities.

  • Including Heroics and Activate abilities.

Get a kill, Cooldowns are gone, repeat.

:rocket: Magic Missiles

20 Mana | Cooldown: 3 seconds | Scale: +3.5%

Fire three missiles toward an area, each dealing 147 damage to the first enemy hit. These missiles do 50% damage to Structures.

  • Blocked by Invulnerable targets.

Your primary damage, spam as much as you can in team fights, it hits like a truck even more when you hit all of them, this ability is extremely flexible for different type of actions and talents and its your safest damage in close range.

It also out ranges all structures (hence 50% damage modifier), if you get the chance, spam it, free damage.

:comet: Arcane Orb

40 Mana | Cooldown: 8 seconds | Scale: +3%

Fire an orb that powers up as it travels, dealing 135 damage to the first enemy hit. Damage is increased the farther it travels, up to 270 more damage.

  • Hit box is smaller than the splash damage meaning she will hit more targets that are slightly out of the radius range.
  • Damage scales 16 times over 1 second.

Your Area of Effect ability, the farther it moves the higher the damage, its slightly slower than Magic Missiles but in the end it will deal a respectful damage for multiple targets, normally you don’t prioritize to hit the most amount of people and it should behave like a secondary damage at most, if you hit multiple targets, good for you, but your objective is still to shutdown someone primarily more than multiple people.

Really good for wave clearing, try squeezing it into the wizard minion and you should weaken 5/7 of the minion wave really quickly.

:sparkles: Teleport

30 Mana | Cooldown: 5 seconds | Scale: +3% (With Calamity chosen)

Teleport a short distance instantly.

  • Allows you to dodge most projectiles that follow you around. Example: Tower shots

A quick repositioning tool, from perspective a 4 range teleport is really silly, for comparison Tracer’s blink are 6 range, Zeratul Blink is 7.15 range and Valla’s vault is 5, its this small that it almost doesn’t feel like it will do much in comparison to other heroes, but honestly this ability even without being buffed is really powerful in the early game, first of all 5 seconds is a short duration even 3 with the right talent, allow yourself to quickly reposition helps you to dodge majority of the damage in a blink of an eye.

It also, despite the range allows you to still take unorthodox routes, walls are you friend, unless they have Diablo, they are still your friend… well sort of…

But the point I wanna throw out, you can transform the map into a linear path, skipping massive amount of chunk, all because you can teleport 4 range!!! Taking those safe routes that will waste 5 seconds? Just teleport in that specific spot and you just saved yourself a lot of time, having a problem? about to die? literally on the glimpse of death and nowhere to go? Just teleport to from these spots and now the enemy has to rotate through the whole area to reach you, and if they do, you can just go beyond that same point again and again.

For example, Cursed Hollow:

:red_square: = Untalented Teleport can pass through.
:blue_square: = Bad symmetry and cannot teleport through.

So my honest opinion, open custom games, try exploring those points and see what you can do, a lot of these allows you to avoid strong points that the enemy would take cover in for ambush (Example Tomb of the Spider Queen and Garden of Terror), which helps you to avoid and even take safer routes.

Also because I talked about this gimmick, Hanamura Temple? Garbage, 0 value out of that gimmick. This map is just this bad with Teleport, you will love to hate it for yet another reason, the theme is cool though.

:fire: Disintegrate

80 Mana | Cooldown: 20 seconds | Scale: +5%

Channel a powerful beam, dealing 480 damage over 2.6 seconds to enemies while they are in it. The direction of the beam changes with your mouse cursor position.


Cast and Aim beam that pierce anything in its way, insanely good source of waveclear, but also quite expensive, used mainly to be the last straw of damage you want to deploy if someone runs away, but overall its really fine for a lot of reasons.

My only jest with this is that you are locked into place which is critical for you to be immediately killed, also don’t point this on Genji, I’m begging you.

:boom: Wave of Force

80 Mana | Cooldown: 30 seconds | Scale: +5%

Knock away all enemies from an area and deal 160 damage.


Very simple and powerful direct damage, you can never go wrong with this in any situation and is flexible to be used in a lot of situations, from shutting down mosh pits/consume souls to spreading your enemy away and closer to you and even as a finisher. The weakness is that its a long cooldown of 30 seconds. Anyone remember when this was 20 seconds? Good times, oh well.


Builds

:green_square: = Main Pick
:yellow_square: = Optional

Calamity Build

:one::green_square: Aether Walker
:four::green_square: Triumvirate | :yellow_square: Dominance
:seven::green_square: Calamity
:ten::green_square: Wave of Force | :yellow_square: Disintegrate
:one: :three::green_square: Illusionist
:one: :six::green_square: Mirrorball | :yellow_square: Diamond Skin
:two: :zero::green_square: Tal Rasha’s Elements | :yellow_square: Repulsion

The recommended build in majority of situations, a mix of poke and going in for Teleport damage, while allowing Li-Ming to deal a good amount of damage.

You transform your Teleport into a powerful offensive and defensive ability on low cooldown, allowing you to kill and finish targets that are running away, while still being difficult to kill due to Diamond Skin or the fact you will fire at them 5 magic missiles up front.

AA Mage Build

:one::green_square: Aether Walker
:four::green_square: Charged Blast
:seven::green_square: Calamity
:ten::green_square: Wave of Force | :yellow_square: Disintegrate
:one: :three::green_square: Cannoneer
:one: :six::green_square: Fireflies
:two: :zero::green_square: Tal Rasha’s Elements | :yellow_square: Repulsion

The a build that prioritizes PvE and also sustain damage dealing in the form of her Q, it enables her to be versatile into also objective racing on Battlefield of Eternity while still maintain in being a good damage dealer, this improves her Q to hit more accurately while also amplify her AA to hit like a truck which will also consume Charged Blast mark to deal an additional layer of damage.

Spam Q, hit your shots, attack, repeat, maintain your distance as a reminder and only use Calamity to finish a target or when you can guarantee to face tank and then finish your target with your Q.

Orb Build

:one::green_square: Aether Walker | :yellow_square: Force Armor
:four::green_square: Triumvirate
:seven::green_square: Zei’s Vengeance
:ten::green_square: Disintegrate| :yellow_square: Wave of Force
:one: :three::green_square: Glass Cannon
:one: :six::green_square: Mirrorball
:two: :zero::green_square: Tal Rasha’s Elements | :yellow_square: Temporal Flux

Turn your W to contest the damage dealt by your Q, making both of your abilities viable and strong from a safe distance, pick this if you guarantee a front line that will protect you, facing melee heroes that cannot dive, and you can play a game where you can utilize walls.

Use Aether Walker to position quickly for a accurate hits to get the cooldown reduction on W, your Q by 16 will hit hard and protect you if someone get close.


Talents Breakdown

:green_square: = Highly recommended
:yellow_square: = Situational
:orange_square: = Very Situational
:red_square: = Not recommended

Level 1

:yellow_square: Force Armor (Q) - You gain 50 spell armor up to 4 and 100% mana regen when you are low.

In practice this is situational and should only be picked if you are facing strong poke or Diablo, this talent is also a popular choice with Orb Li-Ming players, which isn’t really bad as they are also playing ranged poke, personally favor this for the armor and not for the mana regen, hit Q and feel the comfort of a Pyroblast losing half of its damage.

:green_square: Aether Walker (E) - Don’t take damage for 3 seconds and now you can spam teleport more frequently and even close enough to “mount speed” level, well sort of.

But what is important is that you have no mana cost on E, your total consumption just went from 90 mana to 60 mana which is extreme, on top of repositioning and mentioned above in the teleport section, this talent is really powerful and also really good to reposition for good Arcane Orb hits, very flexible in ANY BUILD, you will never go wrong with Aether Walker.

:orange_square: Power Hungry - Mana from globes are doubled and 10% spell power for 20 seconds.

This used to be the prime talent back in the day before the other two were over buffed. This talent focuses on a very extreme niche, which is utilization of regen globes, this is good on maps where Regen globes are common (including yes ARAM), in the end you will do more damage, personally very underperforming and you will likely not get a lot of value out of it, assuming it will maintain the spell power just in time before combat, unless you grab one prior of that happening immediately.

IMO, good pick if you believe you are always going to be safe and unlikely to be damaged, on top of not considering to just jump in with Teleport.

Level 4

:green_square: Charged Blast (Q) (Scale: +4%) - Your Q marks and make you deal more damage when you basic attack.

Highly recommended, first of all for wave clear reasons, you can spread them on multiple minions and in the process you can attack those marked minions, just in time before casting the next one and repeat, it helps both in those situations and in team fights, even if you don’t hit all 3, Li-Ming auto attacking is weird, but honestly you priority is to always squeeze as much as damage as possible in all situations, so stutter stepping while keeping yourself on your toes will allow you to get the most out of it, if you hit mobile heroes with your Q, that extra layer of damage will come in handy.

:green_square: Triumvirate (W) - Hit your Orbs far, and you will get a cooldown reduction and a mana refund.

Essentially very flexible in a lot of situations and a lot of builds, even if its the only W picked, first of all if you get the cooldown reduction, it goes to 3 seconds meaning you can repeatedly spam both Q and W from safe range constantly. Allowing for a continuous barrage of attacks. Even more if it splashes to multiple targets.

:yellow_square: Dominance (D) - Takedowns restore 30% of your missing health.

As was discussed in Critical Mass, this talent can become either very useful or downright useless if you get no takedowns, the extra health you regain is actually very positive and should never be looked down upon, if you play very strong risks for takedowns, the health regained will help, basically you avoid turning a “kill” to a “trade” (equal kills during combat from both sides), this helps a lot with Diamond Skin (25% max HP as shields).

However, this talent can still be picked if you believe the healer will not be sufficient during combat when used on you, which can happen with heroes like Ana missing because you teleported or Lucio unable to heal enough and Li Li not able to heal cuz of other low health targets, in no healer comps this is mandatory for self sustain.

Level 7

:red_square: Seeker (Q) (Scale: +4%) - Extra DPS when you hit a target with all 3.

  • Requires you to hit a target 3 times, works with Mirrorball

Comes too early in the game that only becomes effective in the late game if you pick Fireflies, this talent increases your PVE racing potential but in team fights is horrendous in every single way, your missiles are very fragile and against clumped targets will struggle in hitting what you want, which results in you unable to get the effect you want.

:yellow_square: Zei’s Vengeance (W) - You deal 30% more DPS the farther it goes, -1 cooldown (7 seconds).

Mandatory for Orb Build as it increases the flat damage, by that point your playstyle is being protected by your frontline while you constantly barrage your enemy with Q and W, E is for repositioning.

:green_square: Calamity (E) - Teleport does 300 damage to enemy Heroes near your destination.

Transform your E to both defensive and offensive, offensive allows you to apply an important layer of damage that cannot be dodged due being instant, if you miss a lot you can guarantee to get the most out Calamity, especially when kills start rolling, do be careful as bad utilization would result in you being melee and straight to your death.

Level 10

:green_square: Personally, there’s never a bad heroic in my book, both are essentially viable in their own rights, some people distance from Disintegrate and favor Wave of Force for its flexibility which is understandable, but for this section I’ll put both situational, its up for the reader to decide which suits them more.

:yellow_square: Disintegrate (R) - Allows Li-Ming to have something she lacked since the start, piercing damage, this ability does that exactly, if the target is being peeled by someone that laser will be there to back you up in finishing the kill, but its important to highlight that this ability is disliked because it also grants you the biggest risk, you are locked into your position, meaning anyone can fire damage at you, unless otherwise protected by your teammates.

Be careful before you choose this and what you face as sometimes Wave of Force would play an importance against certain heroes that requires to be shutdown, like Mephisto’s Consume Soul and E.T.C.'s Mosh Pit.

:yellow_square: Wave of Force (R) - Extremely flexible and instant damage, pick this if you need another layer to quickly to apply on someone to finish them off, or cause knockback and serperate the enemy for easy lockdowns, important against heroics with certain heroics which allows li-ming to push the enemy away from her or even save her allies, its more or less a utility heroic but utility is nice for li-ming, especially if you knock the enemy into your full combo.

Careful to not misuse this in the right moment and cause you teammates to miss, clearly I never did this before or never happened to anyone…

Level 13

:green_square: Illusionist (E) - 50% more range, Teleport has been upgraded to Teleport Pro subscription (till end of battle + taxes) which allows you to reset it when you take 20% of your HP as damage.

  • Diamond Skins is shield not health, it won’t proc it if you take 20% of HP as shield damage!!!

IMO, very good talent, that you can never go wrong with, as it allows you to reposition ever farther and even jump over more walls that you could not otherwise, both offensively and defensively, :yellow_square: the reset is weird, sometimes you better not to take damage, but if you do, do consider using that teleport to disengage or finish them off, also don’t trigger it for the sake of it which is a big mistake, you are a squishy not a damage sponge.

:yellow_square: Cannoneer - Basic Attacks hit like the truck after using your abilities and they are spell damage now.

  • Affected by spell power.

Li-Ming dealing physical damage??? uhhhh, yeah, this talent isn’t really bad in fact I pick this more than Illusionist because it provides extra damage in the form of AA, which don’t miss to, recommended if you go Charge Blast on level 4, as it helps you all of the sudden pressure the enemy even when very close to them.

:orange_square: Glass Cannon - +20% spell power, -15% max HP.

The misunderstood “meme” talent, because a lot of people die from it.

Personally this talent is extremely flat out broken, 20% damage increase? That’s like skipping 5 levels to get that same damage, don’t underestimate it, but also the risk is quite understandable, losing health on already squishy hero is scary, this is why this talent is picked mostly in Orb builds, because in Orb, you aren’t face tanking the enemy with a teleport, you are constantly poking, safe and comfortable and not in melee range.

This talent should be picked in this situation, in other circumstances I would not recommend at all as it serves as a choice for a build, if you pick Illusionist into Orb build you are throwing a tremendous amount of damage and probably have misunderstood the comp you are facing that you are now “regretting” picking Orb Build Li-Ming and now paying for your own sins.

Level 16

:yellow_square: Fireflies - Faster missiles, -5 mana cost, 1 second CDR.

The final choice of going Auto Attack Li-Ming build is to shutdown the biggest weakness of your Q, being slow, this ability increases the missile speed quite a lot that it will hit the target you are aiming for, it’s meant to complement everything else you picked on level 1, 4 and 13, which are Aether Walker, Charged Blast and Cannoneer, meaning this plays an important role in that build.

This can be look upon as a sustained damage build using Q and Calamity.

Mana cost reduction is super nice, just spam your Q to amplify everything else you have.

:green_square: Mirrorball - Shoot 5 missiles instead 3, +5 mana cost.

Mana cost will be felt but its really not that much of an issue in the late of the game, this allows you to deal more damage in burst, hitting all 5 on one target is insane, this is also the preferred and recommended talent if you go Orb build, combined with Glass Cannon and now you have 2 ranged abilities deal insane damage, costing at best 25 mana and at worst 65 mana, Mirrorball if it hits all shots on one target basically deals +1 extra missile (cuz 20% spell power), which is a lot.

It also doesn’t really care about range, meaning that even when someone close to you has to be very careful to not eat all the shots, which is a lot of damage.

Mirrorball proves itself being a very strong talent in any build with the downside being the same, your Q is slow, it may miss some shots, but it buffs the burst, get one takedown and now you are spamming more magic missiles for another takedown, its a lot of damage and can turn fights in your favor really quickly, assuming takedowns happen again or at all of course.

:orange_square: Arcane Orbit - Range increase on top of roughly ~37.5% dps increase.

  • Triumvirate range considers the untalented range meaning it wont get anti-synergy.

Picked in Orb build for more orb damage, this talent is super weird, at first glance its basically long range orb that just deal +1k damage, which is a lot, but honestly this talent is really bad, not because it considers an interesting condition of reaching “max range” for the max damage, but that it hurts Li-Ming’s range of her Q.

Q by itself deals a lot of damage, but with Arcane Orbit now you have to oddly position to maximize the damage of an Orb while at the same time, your Q won’t even reach the target from that same position you casted it.

And if Q reaches the target then your Orb isn’t being maximized in increasing that damage.

Consider picking Mirrorball, Orb build is a very misunderstood because it implies that all orbs should be picked but in general its to improve both her Q and W to become primary damage source and not swapping the primary damage source from Q to W, additionally Q is your only useful damage from close range, if someone get close to you, they still have to consider that you have a strong damage source from your Q.

Arcane Orbit still does a good job in being a long range explosion, even going beyond your sight, consider this if you are playing on maps with walls like Towers of Doom.

:green_square: Diamond Skin - Teleport gives 25% of your max HP as shields for 4 seconds.

  • This shield value doesn’t trigger Illusionist.
  • Every subsequent cast only resets the 25% shield amount, does not stack.

Picked for more survivability, if you find yourself being pressured a lot in close range this talent is for you, complements well her Trait when picking Dominance, primary pick for a full E in situations where you believe you need to just be this upfront against a target to fire everything at, every reset to her E resets the 25% shield value, making her extremely hard to kill.

Level 20

:orange_square: Temporal Flux - Slows gradually (1.5% per hit) up to 60% slow.

The only form of other CC other than Wave of Force, which is impossible to have both, but still, this talent is niche and used mostly to spam all your abilities in a target direction and then cast the laser to slow them down to guarantee the hit you want, this can happen to if you wait for your tank to engage for lockdowns, which does the same thing but better.

Pick this with Orb build, cast the whole combo, cast laser before it hits, repeat, pray you won’t get dived on though.

:yellow_square: Repulsion - Double the range, +150% knockback

The upgrade for Wave of Force depends on what you are facing and how much are you required to utilize your heroic against certain heroes.

For example, if you need shutdown a channel such as Consume Souls or Moshpit, this helps a lot as you can do it from a far safer range.

You can also knock people back to your team or create a range between the enemy and your ally if they dive.

There’s a lot of reasons to have this but personally it really varies on what type of situation you are facing.

:green_square: Tal Rasha’s Elements - Crowns on each ability added, each cast increases it by +5%, casting an uncrowned ability will reset the chain and remove the damage increase.

Borderline damage modifier, you can never go wrong with this ability nothing to say about it really, all damage dealt is buffed, that’s it, in a snowball from Critical Mass this gets better in securing kills.

:red_square: Archon: Pure Power | Cooldown: 10 / 1.0 seconds - Can use Disintegrate indefinitely but at the cost of not being allowed to cast any of her other abilities.

Literally a meme that goes against everything designed around Li-Ming, you get no value out of Critical Mass which effects her abilities, and as was previously said: Being a sitting duck as Li-Ming is dangerous, this talent does this really well.

Also it has a 0.75 seconds channel to both go in and out of the form, something to keep in mind if you want to toggle it, you are stun locked in place, the laser in archon is a separate cooldown from her heroic abilities, you also cannot mount.

Pick this if you are winning unironically, otherwise IDK lmao this talent is just funny, laser go brrr.


Closure

Li-Ming, loved and hated, for being a high skill cap or downright “braindead” because someone picked Orb build (in the wrong circumstances) and won.

A cool hero to play, quite flashy, and has a lot of skins more than anyone else in the game, when kills role, dopamine goes to the brain and you want to just get more chain kills, and when it happened, you get MVP or fed 8 times in the row to be reported for AFK none participation.

Anyways, I wanted to share my knowledge, feel free to discuss!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1084779348105625721/1119389304821649428/2023-06-17_01-12-21.mp4

10 Likes

I strongly disagree with you about Arcane Orbit. Combine it with Triumvirate and Zei’s Vengeance and goddayum it does so much damage. I really cannot accept nuking people in an AoE for 1000+ damage every two seconds as bad. Plus, it makes it easier to hit since the orb continues growing and you can aim it from trickier positions, off to the side in unexpected spots. Maybe mark it as yellow, but red is dead wrong.

2 Likes

I don’t mind that it deals 1k damage, its pretty cool to all of a sudden can just nuke people, but the required condition will only sacrifice your Q to be clunky due the sudden range difference between both abilities.

If you cast from the maximum range of your Q, you struggle in maximizing your Orb damage too making Arcane Orbit not gaining the value we want with.

And if you cast from the maximum range of your Arcane Orbit, your Q will always miss.

Q hits hard, with glass cannon in mind in this build, it should still have a purpose, this is why I believe Mirrorball is exceptional.

I’ll put it on very situational because its comically funny and has some uses on ToD, but personally its really weird.

You can cast Arcane Orbit as you approach the enemy, while you’re retreating, while you’re pulled back because you’re low, or while the enemy is trying to flee. Otherwise, you can play normally until you are in a good position to get that mega value. The extra range only gives you more options, not less. I think that those listed situations are plenty common to get enough value from the talent.

I dunno. Speaking personally, switching from Calamity build to Orb build has really propelled my Li-Ming winrate. It was quite poor on my old account, while it’s currently one of my highest. I think it’s just a play preference. Calamity never clicked with me, and was dumpster-tier in my hands because of that, while Orb has served me well.

4 Likes

To each of their own I suppose, I still find Orb build has a place, and there are situations being far more effective than jumping in for kills, I maybe just a hater for that talent in particular but I understand the absolute satisfaction of dealing +1k damage from far away, its funny.

1 Like

Very good guide. Well done and I like the explanations behind why you prioritized certain talents.

For arcane orbit, I get max distance on the orb, teleport closer, and hit my magic missiles so I always get value with orb and missiles, even with this talent.

I take Illusionist at 13 so that if I botched my offensive rotation and got caught out of position, I still have a good chance of escaping an untimely demise.

4 Likes

good guide imo. I’d share a lot of the same opinions on builds/tips, though aa-ming is more my jam than orb or calamity.

Geez sami, if you had put this out seven years ago, HotS would still have a dev team :shushing_face:

You could technically use E after W cast to close the gap certainly but you lose usage of getting accurate Triumvirate throws thanks to Aether Walker or Teleport in general.

I suppose there’s some use but in my own experience its very situational, also from testing purposes I found you could amp your damage from roughly 3.5k to 4.3~k just from mirrorball (R laser included in both).

If only I knew about it in 2016 :pensive:

1 Like

I don’t lose any accuracy because I throw my W as if I wasn’t going to teleport. So the initial W is aimed like normal and then right after the throw, I E closer and throw a Q. The W and Q hit roughly at the same time for huge burst and then I throw another W right after that.

The 2nd W might not get value from Triumvirate if they do not run away from the first combo since I had already teleported closer but if they did run, the 2nd one hits too and values from triumvirate.

I can pump out a lot of damage using that rotation. But essentially, the viability of that build requires good positioning and accuracy. If you miss, you do meaningless damage.

I can pretty much snipe kills no problem but maybe I’m good at it since I started the game as Nova doing skillshots.

Though, I take my teleport talents without calamity so I can have the utility to get the angles I need to have while having some semblance of escape.

2 Likes

That’s a fair point, you just want to maximize it enough to throw a second one immediately afterwards, have to admit that Orbit does a good job in making walls a complete nightmare though.

And yeah, E is really good even if used for the utility itself, since it has enough range to squeeze through some important points on a lot of maps.

2 Likes

I like this guide, it’s a lot more detailed than others and you even managed to help with mapping where the best spots are for escape. If I was a Li Ming enjoyer Id be super grateful.

2 Likes

I only gave one example but like specified Tomb of the Spider Queen inner horizontal walls (between bottom and mid) and GoT on the outer walls are some of the craziest spots you can weaponize to all of a sudden “leave” to safety.

Battlefield of Eternity and Infernal Shrines also have that too and can be used for a lot of cover depending on who you face.

3 Likes

Wow. I think I finally have some nuance for the orb build.

I used to only see “orb good” (usually from people I’m playing with) or “orb bad” (usually from the forums). People were essentially screaming into the void, as they do, from both directions. I didn’t really know what to think.

I agree with your take on Arcane Orbit:

My thoughts on this seeming DPS-optimization contradiction were always “Okay… Maybe the idea is to attack multiple targets instead of one.” Assuming I’ve got a lane buddy doing wave clear, I can attack a closer tower with missiles, and a farther tower with orbs without moving much. Similar idea for the two immortals on Battlefield of Eternity. Missiles on the red one, zone the enemy off the blue one with orbs.

I always assumed that the “problem” with the orb build was with Triumvirate. I assumed people would see Triumvirate as a newb trap since getting the cooldown of Arcane Orb reduced to 3 seconds inherently means you failed to kill…Critical Mass states your cooldowns are reset to 0 if you do get a kill, which then translates to the perception of “you only get value from Triumvirate if you’re doing your job wrong.” This perception is then reinforced by pointing out that Magic Missiles only deal 50% damage to structures, giving people this idea that Li-Ming isn’t for sieging, and that “orb build is for sieging, which is playing her wrong, therefore, orb build bad.”

But you know, here’s the neat thing I think people under this perception would forget:

Li-Ming doesn’t have to be the one getting the kills for Critical Mass to go off. She can just do a 1000 damage poke from downtown every 3 seconds, and then a diver can finish the job, and then Critical Mass says she instantly starts a new job. Rinse. Repeat. And then sadness from lack of mana…or HP if you got foolish.

Anyway, I always thought Li-Ming’s poke was phenomenal, which I figured meant her siege was decent, via Arcane Orb, but I was always told otherwise. I suppose the orb build probably falls apart more easily than other builds in an organized setting.

Eh, it is what it is.

Sure, she might not siege quite as hard as Hammer or Nazeebo, but unlike Hammer, she can move while doing it, and unlike Nazeebo, she can keep at a pretty safe distance.

Thanks for this, by the way.
I don’t think I’ve read a more comprehensive guide that was as easy to understand.

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Thank you, it was inspired by some DND RPGbot guides when it comes to the format.

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The only mode I pick Li Ming in is ARAM so I have very little input and I wasn’t aware of the exact talent choices in the builds until I read this guide, just was vaguely aware of the builds themselves. I remember choosing to go orb build and picking Arcane Orbit, and even then I stayed far far away from glass cannon despite the huge distance advantage. I think I can see arcane orbit might be viable in objective capping maps like volskaya and sky temple, but it’s a bit clunky like you said. You’d have to use the orb + teleport and Q for a finisher after harassing enough with maximum distance orb on an objective cap. Plus the enemy team comp has to encourage grouping and defense capping to begin with.

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You should try her in QP

She’s basically spam stuff on CD and follow up when you get kills.

(I apologize for the previous post I apparently didn’t realize I posted in the wrong thread until now lmao sorry I’m just tired)

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As a long time Li-Ming player, I just wanted to say I love this guide, I picked up a couple of things that have been very helpful. I also appreciate you putting red flags next to Seeker and particularly Archon: Pure Powerlessness.

I especially like that you’ve clearly laid out the strength and versatility of her different builds. Likewise, I hope this challenges people who think “only Orb Build works” or “only Q build works”, etc.

Perhaps it will mean one less Li-Ming on my team who believes a Full Orb build with no defensive skills, glass cannon, laser and Archon upgrade are “fine actually” vs a full dive comp and a Pyro KT. If it stops even one Full Orb, Ming who targets Genji with deflect active, with a full channel of Disintegrate, I’ll take this guide as a huge win.

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Seeker is my favorite talent, but I’m not about argue it’s a great choice.

And I know exactly why I like Seeker: It’s the sound effect.
Mmmm…Such a good noise.
I wants it. I needs it… devolves in Gollum

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Oh you that sound is just *chefs kiss*

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