i found the key to Murky is timing and his evasiveness. i like slime build with fish oil at 16 it makes it less likely they will rush in to kill puffer making it a throw and forget weapon allowing you to keep moving. i agree puffer needs a buff you shouldn’t have to waste a talent choice to make an ability effective .You may want to try putting egg in a lane you are not fighting in allowing you cover more ground more lane presence and a better chance with puffer. Die in one lane show up in another is a good way to frustrate other team .
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I do yeah. Im level 12 which is far better than i thought it would be prior to entering this thread.
You dont need to be an aa hero to easy kill puffer. Everyone can kill it with aa. Its that easy to kill. Lol. Dyepm? Those days of tracers and raynors countering puffer are gone man. All aa’s do the job now. Im seriously shaking my head at you right now.
Yeah dude casting early. Like i said you lose the lane and get pushed back as murk 100%. If you are casting the puffer before the minion arrives you clearly are losing the lane. You have no chance to win the lane.
What if the lane is already pushed and you arrive trying to defend? You can not wait as the wave arrives at your towers. The opponent is already on top your gate and can easily spot the fish. Tyepm? The only time this is even half way viable is after the waves meet halfway and yours loses. You cant do this if your wave is pushed up to their gate since the towers target the fish or the opponent has safety and space to move out to kill it. Which they do.
And id love to hear the effectiveness of this tactic when the two towers are down and you scrambling to defend the fort keep.
Help me understand what you are trying to say. Is puffer easily killed or not? You mention it being fine but have no idea how. You say its fine but agree it is easily killed ( yea you did). Do you know what you are trying to say?
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Against many non-AA based heroes, if you time if (if they have slower attacks) or use it as a distraction to allow you to slime the lane twice w/put bubble…
You can slime a third time and escape with bubble, clearing wave.
Or stand near/on pufferfish to make it harder to target.
Cool story bro.
No. You should never lose the lane as Murky, 1v1, is you and enemy have similar skill level.
Getting pushed back, and minor tower damage, sure.
But you shouldn’t take any significant damage.
No.
I often have puffer die, but still their wave of minions does first.
After this, my wave goes towards towers, does easily.
So I pre-cast pufferfish for the next wave to make it harder for them to kill pufferfish and get more of my wave to tower.
YOU, Turnips, may not.
But I do have a chance to win lane. And I win lane more often than I lose it.
And when I lose it it normally is just minor damage on towers.
That is a very different discussion which we can have. But if what I’ve said so far doesn’t make sense to you, there is not much point to that discussion.
I don’t run into that scenario, because by the time my towers are down I can 1v1, or at least force the enemy hero to ignore the pufferfish if they and to kill me and not die.
I’m personally saying it feels weak.
But statistically it seems fine.
And I’m willing to let the statistics win over my feelings.
It is fine for not losing the lane, against pretty much everyone.
It is not fine for winning the lane against AA heroes.
Against not AA heroes it can be used to win the lane if you’re a good pilot on Murky.
I know what i’m Trying to say.
Too me, it sounds like you’re either:
- unimaginative
- looking to make the worst possible assumption of what I post.
I’m perfectly happy to play a few games as Murky, either with you, or with you playing as Murky.
Provided you play/are willing to play on USwest/UScentral
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Why are you going head to head with the enemy laner? As Murky, you’re supposed to be tricky. Depending on the map, you can proxy waves by going behind their fort and even take out their fountain to force them out of lane.
When you do this, you force multiple enemies to chase after you, so your team gets the objective, steals a camp, or takes a fort in a different lane.
If you see that your enemies are still visible in lanes, you can go steal their siege camps 1 min into the game. Then they would be forced to take care of that, and you can lane safely without opposition.
Murky is all about annoying, tricky plays with map awareness, not about brute force head to head fights.
I’ve never heard that term before. What does “proxy” mean here?
It probably means Murky is intercepting the wave inbetween the fort and keep.
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Yes. When you do this at level 1, ~3 minions count towards your bribe stack and you will lose most of your health. The enemies will probably gank and kill you, but it forces them to leave lane.
Once you reach level 4 and if you get living the dream, you will clear the whole wave and get nearly full stack in less than 5 seconds. So you can double soak or get camps in between.
Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KXfTb7kgAo
He didn’t go living the dream, but I find that with living the dream, it’s faster to clear camps and lanes. It gives you a power spike in early game and gives you some margin for error.
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Generally speaking, Living the Dream is the best talent if you do not believe you can spike quest easily.
Slime quest, provided you can do it fast, is generally better than Living the Dream. But for the quest it feels like 90% of how fast you finish it is on enemy skill, not your own skill. 
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I’ll just chime in a bit:
Pufferfish is pretty easy to kill with most heroes who are the types who would go solo lane.
The first trick is saving an ability to take it out, such as Spiders on Naz. In that case, if Naz uses spiders on something else, then murky has a better oppurtunity to get a pufferfish bomb off.
Some heroes have it much much easier taking care of murky fish bomb. Samuro is a strong lane counter to Murky. He can kill it incredibly easy with just AA’s and can easily bully Murky with just his AAs. I think a single crit might be enough to take out a pufferfish. Gazlowe’s fully charged lazer takes it out too and he can focus puffer’s with turrets and can easily bully murky out of lane with turrets and punches. Had a game where I kept bullying murky and had 4 turrets right in front of his turrets. I didn’t let him take a single step out and he didn’t get one pufferfish off.
He did try the ‘Use pufferfish as minion wave approaches’ before I got all up on his towers, but if you’re anticipating it, it’s an easy thing to prepare for and take care of.
A mistake I often see, in my opinion, is not taking the pufferfish talent at level 4. (Can’t remember name).
The 50% spellarmor can really help it survive against some more spellorientated heroes and can, for some, can make it nearly impossible for them to make it in time to destroy pufferfish.
The added damage also allows murky to clear a wave with puffer with only a single slime and puffer, giving overally more bribe stacks.
If pufferfish/bribe combo was something that was actually relatively easy to pull off, then it’d be really overpowered, if you couldn’t prevent Murky from getting mad bribe stacks. So it’s balanced.
Bribe comes alive later game when there aren’t people constantly laning.
Just go in a wave, slime+pufferfish, then leave for next lane or teamfight.
A typical problem I see in games where there’s an enemy Murky is that most people don’t seem to focus the pufferfish at all. I usually have to tell them to destroy the pufferfish to prevent him from getting bribe stacks.
Kinda sad.
Also who else loves it when there’s a guy picking murky on the ARAM brawl that has no mercs, but takes the bribe talent? ./facepalm
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Back in my day, Murky could solo a butcher by playing hide’n’seek
It was fun destroying a fort as a baby murloc.
Anyways, i’ve also recently picked up Murky once more. I get annoyed when they blow up my pufferfish, even though I normally go my own custom build.
Let me know if this, in the current, is bad
Egg Hunt LV1
Living the Dream Level 4
Black Lagoon Level 7
Octo-grab level 10
Rejuvinating Bubble Level 13
Toxic Buildup Level 16
… And a shark too! Level 20
Let me know if its bad in the current meta.
He can still do that honestly. Just waver back and fourth just outside his AA range and keep using slime.
If he charges, disjoint it with safety bubble.
And back then he had his original fish tank that just made a mockery of auto attack heroes too.
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I will never forget the day when I as Murky solo’d a Kharazim and Raynor thanks to fish tank. It was amazing.
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Murky has very big problems in the early game. I think Blizzard should shorten the activation time of its “W” by 0.5 seconds. I wonder what would happen if Blizard exchanged all level 7 talents with level 13 talents.
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I don’t like its design. It’s not a bad talent, I just preferred my Murky without it. Same reason I don’t like his 8 sec respawn. I see why they did, but doesn’t feel right when playing him.
Would prefer the reduction in spawn time with the playstyle that talent promotes. Specially since bubble heal already takes care of quick healing. I guess I would say with the way bubble heal is; Egg shell is better off not being about regenerating.
After playing with Murky for several games, in different team situations I have no doubt about something:
Murky has a much stronger late game than other dps in the game, this because his options at level 20 ALMOST all are very good, besides having one of the strongest CCS and easy to use. ![:+1:](https://d3rakab8gpdsa3.cloudfront.net/en/heroes/images/emoji/twitter/+1.png?v=6" ":+1:")
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Yeah, MotM is pretty bonkers.
If you’re talking about octograb… I dunno what is wrong with you. 
But I don’t like octograb so, i’m biased a ton!
Octograb certainly has its uses against heroes like Tracer, Genji and Illidan. But it relies heavily upon your team following it up, as your pufferfish alone isn’t sufficient to 100-0 them. Unless they engage at 60% HP, but that’s not the usual case.
It’s a very niche talent in most circumstances yes its effectiveness shines the most as it all comes to how much reactionary your team is, if Murky get focused the level 20 goes to waste after the first hit, on the other hand it can add an extra layer of damage to the whole combo and its generally lethal if the entire team focuses the victim.
A bit on Living the Dream - Even at 20% spellpower boost, it still yields less overall damage then Tufferfish if you can use more then 1 pufferfish, and for slime, it yields less damage then stacked Slime Time until you hit REALLY late game (I think around lvl 26 for the bonus spellpower to beat out the flat bonus damage)
Overall, I view Living the Dream as predominately a PvE talent w/ March of the Murlocs - You show up to a team fight, use March of the Murlocs, and then get back to laning/camps. For Living the Dream to beat out either of the other builds outside of March of the Murloc for PvP, you need to get usage out of both Time to Krill and Wrath of Cod.
Overall…
Slime Time for sustain PvP damage.
Tufferfish for burst PvP damage combined with Octo-Grab and Shark
Living the Dream for PvE and March of the Murlocs.
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But Slime Time takes a while to come online, in my experience, UNLESS you are much better than your opponents.
At which point, you’re probably winning anyways.
I wish Slime Time’s stacking was more based on your own skill, not how the enemy is playing. =[
But, that’s just my opinion, of course.
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