I had shelved that hero, but recently decided to play him again, and… in games where the enemy team is good, you need level 20 before you can start doing anything. You can’t really do anything before that. Your fish gets blown up every time you spawn it, you can’t use it to get Bribe stacks, as it’s always destroyed, and without it, Murky’s waveclear isn’t good. And if the enemy is destroying his fish all the time, that also means Murky also can’t go into the minion wave and just kill them with Slime, as he can get popped up fairly easily too. Or he can go in, Slime once and escape with Bubble, but that has a long cooldown.
Truly, Murky, before level 20, only seems to shine when enemies aren’t too good, and let him push stuff for free.
Perhaps his purpose is to force enemy team to split up and babysit him, but if enemy team has a hero like Probius or Zagara, that can backfire, as they out-push Murky, and he’ll need help from his team to defend.
I do believe that at least his fish needs a HP buff, or the lvl 4 talent should be giving it armor, instead of just spell armor, as most skillshots ignore it, and most often enemies kill it with basic attacks.
depends on the talent you goes.
Pufferfish always depends on enemy team
Slime quest build depends on enemy team until later game
going living the dream + whatever tends to work before late game no matter enemy team skill.
Cast it ahead of the minion waves so it will blow up on part of it.
don’t take bribe?
I think Fake Eggs are pretty garbage, but vision is pretty solid.
Slime is still very powerful waveclear.
Not in my experience. It’s really easy to slime a wave twice, which deals massive damage.
Sometimes you can get a third, sometimes not.
That’s a “need to get better at Murky” issue.
Yeah, maybe not an HP buff or even talent armor change.
BUT, it 100% needs a buff somewhere, based on personal experience.
By winrate as far as we can tell it actually does okay, somehow.
But a lot of this stuff written here is “get better as Murky” and sounds like issues with recently picking Murky up again…
yeah I just started playing murky again for some reason (probably because of fan’s stream) and surprisingly he feels pretty good, just have to play patiently.
When you have gmane laning against you, don’t even try to get puffer stacks. Just soak and don’t die. The moment you can start doublesoaking while your team 4mans another lane, you out-doublesoak and out-rotate most of the roster so you can easily just rotate opposite your laning opponent and it doesn’t matter if they win the matchup or can kill your puffer, you will start winning exp + getting bribe stacks super fast. Then through smart egg placement and good use of heroics, you can make a huge difference in fights. Against some low-mobility heroes, just the mere ability to walk up and slime with impunity (E) is hugely disruptive. Then you get to lategame
These posts are useful to capture a “how does a hero feel to a kinda newcomer”.
They are valuable posts, but it feels a lot like you tried to force pufferfish to work, and you lack the practice to be able to pull of lane clearing with slime while saving bubble for when absolutely needed.
I agree that Murky is to dependent on the other team, but it to the level you suggest.
You cannot use pufferfish to clear lanes with an opponent present period. They kill it to easily. I know this sounds like great exaggeration but its true. It takes no effort at all to kill the puffer and you get pushed back to your cannon everytime.
If puffer is destroyed so easily you cant build stacks then dont take bribe? Ok so it is desoyed easily lol. And having to avoid an entire talent is not a solution: its proof theres a problem.
Fish Eye is really good at level 1, and you can still take Bribe at 1 if people can kill your puffer. It’s just up to how the macro game is going. Tufferfish at 4 is already really good for puffer value and resilience, but rotations are really the key for getting bribe stacks. Rotate the opposite of your lane opponent and you’ll beat their waveclear speed, or just proxy clear the wave before it even gets to the enemy’s fort and they’ll have to choose to kill your puffer or soak the wave.
Murky kinda sucks now. Great when no coordination is around. Worthless against decent teams. Has too much counter play and takes too long to build up in strength. Early laning phase is a nightmare against anyone who knows murky and can play any of over half the roster fine.
Not sure how egg hunt hasn’t been reworked since stealth and spawn nerf.
Bribe is fine on most maps. Vision is probably the best though.
Level 4 is when you start building yourself for the rest of game (double soaking or fighting for stacks). Living the dream is pretty meh unless you planning some sick marches later.
Level 7 has a few needed talents
They really need to buff the shield talent to at least quicken his respawn time.
Level 16 to 20 talents are obviously fine but still annoyed that BTK exist but it seems plenty of people enjoy it
Change egg hunt to allow you to spawn in a nearby bush within a radius around your real egg. (could care less about the stealth, it’s only good for not getting dismounted as easily)
Have egg shell also allow you to spawn 3 sec faster (basically removing the respawn nerf, while helping this talent mix better with BTK)
QOL changes:
Allow bubble to soak skill shots again.
Wouldn’t mind seeing black lagoon go baseline at a 15-20% increase instead of 30% with the talent being changed to a debuff on application, but I would rather do an actual decent rework if I was going to start pushing for actual buffs.
Won past 8 of 9 games as Murky in QM with this build:
1: A fishy deal
4: Living the dream
7: any
10: Octograb
13: Rejuvenating bubble
16: any
20: usually don’t reach this, but if so, Big tuna kahuna
I’d say A Fishy deal and Living the dream are almost mandatory for early game. Murky can take seige camps without using a fishy deal pretty easily early on, so I mostly use the stacks for either quickly stealing enemy camps or to solo bruiser camps quickly early in the game.
Living the dream allows you to clear waves and get camps so much easier and more quickly early on. Tufferfish would be better if it included armor and not just spell armor, as it’s usually the auto-attackers who destroy the fish. So far, I’ve had no luck stacking Slime time, except when we’re already snowballing.
Level 10 is your real power spike. Comboing pufferfish with Octograb allows you to pretty much solo 1v1 gank anyone. Octograb also secures kills in team fights. March of the Murlocs is too underwhelming to use and the cool down is way too long.
Level 13 is when enemies start to run away from you. Before Rejuvenating bubble and fish tank, you have to use the bubble to retreat when you get low on health. Now you can chase them down.
That said, Murky can die a lot before level 13 and that can cost you the game. A way to fix this is to swap level 13 talents with level 7 talents, or to buff Murky’s base HP and reduce the scaling, or perhaps give him a passive like speed boost when damaged.
This is only true if you’re solo laning against a strong auto-attacker and you’re not proxying. In which case, you should ask a team mate to distract whoever is laning against you and go proxy the next wave.
Else, you could go lane with teammates who can distract enemies away from the pufferfish and know to focus on enemy heroes rather than waste their time wave clearing.
Tanky pufferfish is not as important as distracting attention away from the pufferfish. Alternatively, when the enemy is attacking the pufferfish, they aren’t attacking heroes on your team, and you can suicide body-block as your team mates secure a kill.
If you pre-tap, it’s possible to solo Bruiser camps at level 4 without stacks. But I don’t usually do this, as it takes way too long and requires perfect play. But if you even have 1 bribe and you have Living the dream, it’s quick and worth it.
Agreed that before level 13, Murky is too squishy and pretty much instantly dead in team fights, but he can take camps quickly way earlier than that.
Just a bit.
Just my highest level hero, you know…
And sitting near a 66% winrate in all modes outside of versus AI and Heroes Brawl.
At one point I nearly got him to a 70% winrate in hero league (Diamond rank).
Sorry, but do you even play murky?
Also note I explained a way to do this earlier.
You cast the pufferfish before the enemy minions get there, so it explodes right as minions enter it’s AOE.
Sometimes you cannot hit all minions doing this, but it is viable and much harder for the enemy to counter.
They’re easy to kill, but people still fail to kill it far more often than they should.
Do you even play Murky?
Do you even play Murky?
It’s really easy to get kills with it later on if you really want to go bribe.
Although I do think it is bad.
The Truth is, in the top 1% of games on hotslogs… Pufferfish appears to be fine.
I don’t understand how, but it does seem to be okay.
I don’t know how far this differs from Blizzard’s numbers. But if pufferfish was super weak it would have seen some sort of buff.
It’s one of the thing that annoys me, as I feel it’s weak, but as far as I can tell it is viable.
And after all that all I’ve gotta ask:
Do you even play Murky?
It probably limits design space a tiny bit (inconsequential imo).
But I’ve no idea what nobme has against it myself.
It’s not always the best choice, but it rarely is the worst.
![:confused:](https://d3rakab8gpdsa3.cloudfront.net/en/heroes/images/emoji/twitter/confused.png?v=6" ":confused:")
![:smiley:](https://d3rakab8gpdsa3.cloudfront.net/en/heroes/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
