Well the very first one I believe was 2.5% per attack, so 7.5% per triple strike, which was a pretty fine burst, especially if you liked nexus blade at 20. It was then nerfed to 2% (and the triple strike talent was nerfed a bit - 1 more sec). These talents were not OP, but blizzard wanted artanis players to be interested in others talents too.
Now it’s even more lower, 1.5% strike. Ok, we got the 0.5% per normal attack, but there are situations where you can’t just sit around and attack all the time. Sometime you can just attack, do your little burst and back a bit. I tried the e build with titan killer but the dmg still seem not that great, and anyway most of the time the warriors just walk away (or you’re cced) and you can’t do all of the dmg. With E build I feel like the slow on attack at 16 is a must.
Def not the same power of Fenix lvl 16 talent imo. How to buff it without making it OP, I’m not sure. But like you said, the other two talents at 16 seem more interesting even vs big hp ennemy team.
I think a large part of it was that the old Titan Killer was buffed by the original Triple Strike, which came with no drawback. I can probably get away with bumping up Titan Killer’s Twin Blades shred to 2% and leaving the rest as-is.
Overall, this is a pretty good analysis and rework concept. I do have a few things I’d like to call attention to.
Rename this to just “Zealotry.” The “Veteran” part just detracts from it.
I do like the idea of changing the quest part for this. I hadn’t thought of changing it to TB hero hits, though you should probably halve the damage gained and/or put a solid cap on how high that can stack. As it is, Artanis will be gaining 2 damage every 4 seconds while in a teamfight, which is way too strong unless you put a cap on it.
One last thing, though:
What is going to replace this talent at level 20?
I mean, I won’t complain about a buff to my favorite talent, but Titan Killer is already amazing, as it really makes his Twin Blades build go into overdrive. Triple Strike covers for the lack sustain just fine, and being able to chunk people for 4.5% of their health every 5 seconds on top of his already formidable damage is really strong. I can easily nuke down a third of a squishy’s health with a single W, so I don’t think buffing Titan Killer’s damage is necessary. He’d likely just need nerfs somewhere else to compensate.
This is a good change, it might make this talent worth picking for once.
Veteran Zealotry and Psionic Synergy changes are great. I have no problem with these.
My only concern is that this might be a much more favored talent over Shield Surge because it’s faster cd reduction, an increase duration to shield and triggers at 90% health. It would do too well when coupled with Blades of a Templar and Zealot Charge for the gap close.
I approve of this.
What about adding a debuff, say when enemy is hit by Titan Killer, they get reduced healing for 3 secs which procs on every 10 secs after the first one? (Weird I know, but I’m only trying to help out with ideas ^^)
I like this new shield burn talent. Just imagine proc-ing Shield almost all the time when 5 people decide to clump on you kekku. I can see this being viable with the new Shield Battery talent.
But what do you think, would it be good if this talent were to be combined with Phase Bulwark at 13? I think it’s good, but I’d like your say on the idea of it coming at an earlier tier.
Agreed. Most of his talents are viable and balanced, which is rare to see right now, especially in reworks where a talent tier can only have either one good or trash talents.
I was thinking about adding spice to his Blade Dash, maybe a Q talent or baseline functionality that gives it a Slow upon hit, say 10%? Can really make Dash build super fun. Maybe adding it to the new Solarite Reaper can work. What do you think?
I’m glad you like it, and I look forward to your feedback.
I’m debating on changing it to “Seasoned Zealot”, actually. Possibly just “Zealotry”. I don’t know. Time will tell.
Edit: Heirarch’s Zeal is what I ended up going with. I thought about it and it doesn’t really need to reference Seasoned Marksman anymore considering that it’s just a Twin Blades quest now instead of a Basic Attack modifier.
Edit 2: Changed it to Zealotry. Why is naming things so hard?
Okay.
Nothing. I should probably specify that.
Edit: Specified.
Titan Killer is troublesome because it’s primarily tied to Artanis’s reasonably substantial burst damage, which makes it good against both soft and tough targets. I don’t think that a 0.5% increase to the shred on Twin Strikes is enough to push it into “broken” territory, though - Blades of a Templar and Force of Will are insanely strong, so I feel that Titan Killer has to be similarly impactful to be able to compete.
I’m glad you think so!
Hooray!
Looking over my notes, it was apparently supposed to be 80% when I wrote the final post instead of 90% and I was too tired/distracted to have caught it. I’ll be scaling the buff down to 80%, which I hope addresses your concerns.
I think the health shred (and Artanis healing from it) is plenty. I’d rather leave the Healing Reduction to Varian.
That’s the idea! I really love characters that can get into the middle of a teamfight and just brawl their hearts out due to sustain - of course, Blaze is a favorite of mine for that reason.
Phase Bulwark definitely does not need the help. Semi-permanent 50 Spell Armor is no joke, and adding Plasma Burn - either the original version or the reworked - would push it straight into S tier. I would have to do all kinds of mental gymnastics to balance it and I’m perfectly content with leaving the two be as they are.
I think that Blade Dash’s core is good and its Talent selection is slightly unhealthy, but the Rework’s buff to Solarite Reaper should address that just fine. I don’t think that Artanis needs any more Slows, given that his Crowd Control has a lot of potential as it is.
I do have a couple of nitpicky comments regarding your overview of his current state. Regarding Amateur Opponent, one aspect of that talent that a lot of people miss is that it works against any non-hero target. This makes it strong against heroes that rely on summons, like Gazlowe or Probius in that he can delete turrets and pylons very quickly. AO also works against structures, so he can push very hard when accompanying an objective, which means that if he is left alone in a lane on Alterac Pass, Tomb of the Spider Queen, Cursed Hollow, or Garden of Terror when the objective is up, he will take your buildings. Guaranteed.
I also think you undervalue Solarite Reaper quite a bit, not that I mind buffs to it. In addition to being a part of Q build for dealing with being blinded regularly, I like it when I have to do a lot of lane clearing, or when dealing with the objective means killing lots of little things quickly, such as fighting for the objective on Infernal Shrines, or cleaning up a zerg wave on Braxis.
So Amateur Opponent’s grade needs to go up to A+, got it.
Perhaps I am, but that’s probably because it isn’t very flashy in comparison to the other Level 7 Talents. While a ~37.5% increase to the total damage of Blade Dash isn’t bad by any stretch of the imagination, it doesn’t drastically increase Artanis’s Attack Speed (which he relies on for both offense and defense) and it doesn’t generate Crit Kickers constantly (which, frankly, feel good to see).
I’ll gladly amend the commentary section on Solarite Reaper to go into more detail about its uses, but I’m not convinced that it should get a higher grade - a C+ is “not bad, but definitely could be better”, and I feel that describes Solarite Reaper pretty well.
Every single “deals bonus damage to Non-Heroes” effect has been modified over the years to not include structures except for Amateur Opponent. You’ll have to forgive me for expecting it to get the same treatment as things like Kneel, Peasants! and Exterminator.
I don’t feel the need to do so. Artanis would not be the only character with two choices at Level 20.
It’s actually worse. 2 bad options that never get picked are just a waste of time, and if someone misclicks, you may as well not have a level 20 at all.
Very nice review, I pretty much share your views on the power of his talents and abilities. I don’t think, however, that many of your tweaks would be good for the game, Artanis yes, the game no.
Artanis is one of those heroes that is incredibly durable, yet has no way to disengage after going all in. If you increase his durability, or damage, then he’ll be too oppressive against teams without enough burst or CC. I think they might stand to buff some of the rarely used talents a little, but honesty he has 3 builds that I see people use, and there is enough variety that different talents are taken for the “standard” build. Shield Battery vs. Shield Surge for example.
What makes Artanis especially good is that he can solo camps himself and is a solid solo laner, I think he’s already pretty well balanced for the game.
How does that follow? I already said two of the three options are not viable on Anub’arak, leaving him with only one talent that is picked almost every time. I would much rather have 2 solid options, than 2 terrible ones and 1 “must pick”. Blaze only has 2 level 20 talents, and I don’t see that as a problem.
Adding talents solely for the sake of having more talents isn’t a compelling argument.
