How to make HotS great (from LoL veteran, diamond+)

General Discussion
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H, I’m a Lol and dota veteran. Played first dota, playing lol since 10 years.

Recently I’ve tried out HotS and I really have to say its a great game with great potential mainly due to it’s unique and interesting characters.

Blizzard visibly has courage to make interesting characters and they succeed. I haven’t played any ADC in Lol that would be as fun as Hanzo to play.
Similarly Genji is just perfect as an assasin and recently I fell in love with Malthael. Muradin is every lol tank player a wet dream.

You get me - hots characters are REALLY REALLY good, also the system of talents instead of items is also really good imo, but there is one issue that is pulling this game down and that is maps.

I don’t know what about you Hots veterans but personally I’m sick of collecting some bullshiit throughout the game, I prefer the classic moba gameplay, which is solo duels in early lane. Mini teamfights in mid game and full teamfights in late game. Also I’m missing jungle a lot, I’m a jingle player.

Anyway that is what pulls other moba players to get interested in this game. The fact that they have to do stupid things to win instead of what they like to do in other moba games

The Solution to that problem imo is to create a new map that would be like Summoners Rift. Top could be inspired thematically by WoW, mid by Starcraft and bot by Diablo for example. Beside that, the map would be identical to Lol and dota map.

That way people that migrate from lol and dota to hots would have no issue as they could fell in love with hots amazing characters, without getting annoyed by playstyle they dont like i.e. they wouldnt have to collect some bullshiit, they could just play this game on whatever position they like.

Since I have tried Malthael all I dream of is playing him in LoL-like jungle or Hanzo on ADC or Genji on mid or Muradin on top.

In order to show u what I mean I’ve made this picture. “https: //imgur .com/a/0u cc6fw” - Delete spaces in the link. I dont know why this does not allow me to post pictures.

Make it easy for players to migrate from other moba games to hots and then use good advertisement. And btw make it easier to get characters you like. I’m sick of playing with rotation bullshiit that I dont like for ages just to be able to play characters that interest me.

Also dont make starcraft characters, they are boring af and wow characters are half of the roster. Overwatch and diablo characters are most fun to play.

P.S. Buff tormented souls. It’s weak af, but could be fun.

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That’s the whole point of HoTS. This is why teamwork is encouraged.

Then go play Dota and LoL. They got what you want.

The next hero will most likely be from Starcraft. Whether you like it or not.

Why Tormented Souls when Last Rites exists?

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I appreciate your point of view on HotS and the maps.
It’s true that HotS doesn’t have a classic Moba-Map, but we have 14 maps in the rotation and 12 of them are played competitive.
Is there not one map you could like to play?
The major design idea of all HotS Maps is the objective that both sides have to compete with.

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Because Tormented Souls has its viability.
It’s an AoE damage that deals percental damage

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Your views have already been expressed over and over and the consensus is if you don’t like hots for what it is then go back to the other moba. There will never be more solo impact. No hypercarries. No summoners rift standard map

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My main issue is that your suggestions are in the context of making the game appeal to other MOBA players by making it more like other MOBAs.

However I would rather keep HOTS unique and most other MOBA players will not enjoy HOTS anyway. Since it is very different from other MOBAs.

Adding jungles is interesting yet we have objectives in their place instead. I would not mind a LOL style map yet I do not think those players will get it often. Nor will a single map draw players in.

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Don’t make WoW/Diablo/Nexus/OW characters, they are boring.

Yea. sure :roll_eyes:

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Could be fun and finally a suggestion from a lol player that isnt “items” “surrender button” or “hypercarry”.

People here generally dont like big maps. Its very hard to force a fight and theres no reason to soak lanes after level 20. Jungles are also less common just because just about everything can die to a gank. I do appreciate your perspective though and wouldn’t mind a map like you mentioned.

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I refused to touch LoL anymore but they really hit the Nail on the head with Jhin.
-Cool reload mechanic
-Extreme range but very narrow skillshots
-aesthetic as heck with the whacky gunplay
-good VA

Pretty much this. I like HotS because it’s not another Dota clone. Plus we already have “jungles” and a number of heroes geared at taking camps and rotating.
That being said new maps aren’t very likely in the near future if ever again. I would like to see a map objective that’s spread out like haunted mines was or old garden terror. They went too hard on e-sports and team fighting all of the time on every objective.

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I know. But Malthael already has Death Shroud and his basic attacks cleave. It isn’t really necessary.

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No, I have to disagree, Death Shroud has a wind up of 0.25 s before Reapers Mark is applied in a rather small line. It travels slow and doesn’t last unless you pick the level 20 upgrade Final Curtain (which can’t really compete with the level 20 talent No one can stop death).
Tormented Soul on the other hand is a circular area of effect, stays for 4 s and applies Reapers Mark continuously (which is in HotS 16 times per second). It deals 1.75% damage of Max. HP each second to every opponent within the circle. I wouldn’t say this is negligible. It gets a real nasty power spike with its level 20 upgrade

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As experience is shared, HOTS is doomed to have no laning phase.
Usually, you will have either 1 man double soaking lanes, or 1 man in solo lane and a 4-man group double soaking lanes.

The objectives are there to force teamfights, which are meant to make the game fast-paced with a lot of fights.
HOTS is meant to be played by teams, which means that you will never (almost) snowball by yourself, or hypercarry. In exchange, it is more difficult for the enemy team to do so.
The objectives also play a role in that as they allow the better team to get a timed advantage which will both accelerate the game towards its end, and also be rewarded as they indeed played better than their opponents.

I admit that it can scare other moba players away, but making these changes would need a totally new game to be made from scratch (almost), so it probably won’t happen.

Basically, HOTS is meant to be a “lively” game of permanent teamfights, without the “boring” laning phase. It is meant to be played in quick matches of less than 20 minutes. The hero-building logic is that “if it’s not strong enough, make it stronger” compared to other mobas where “if it’s too strong, nerf it” is applied (this is the reason why characters are so different, so strong, yet are still balanced somehow). It is necessary, as long cooldowns and weak mobility/control would mean that teamfights would either need to be over quickly (like in LoL) or be only boring auto-attacking. As teamfights are designed to be long and intense, every hero has a lot of tools to reposition, crowdcontrol, with low cooldowns. The “healer” role is a true role (other mobas have mainly “supports” which are totally different from HOTS healers), as it allows teamfights to get longer.

HOTS is described by Blizzard as a “Hero Brawler”. It means what it means, even though it looks like a moba, it definitely isn’t one. The essence of the game is not playing versus the environment, or playing versus the map. The players know that maybe a bit too well (you can see that when you realize most people can’t macro and often can’t even lane properly). The essence of HOTS is to fight and kill enemy heroes as a team.

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That is true. But imo it still doesn’t compete with Last Rites which is an excellent finishing ability.

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You can’t teamfight constantly because you’d lose soak and the game. The game is just bleh

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Obviously can’t.
But still, that’s what HOTS is designed for. Keep up with the enemy team or get a talent advantage, and teamfight for the whole game apart from that.
“Specialists” were the option for people who liked playing other mobas. They are the only exception to the game, and were more or less destroyed as a role. The message HOTS is conveying is: your goal should be to teamfight. People who splitpush all the time or plat suicide builds are no fun in HOTS, mainly because the game wasn’t designed for this type of plays.

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If minions and camps granted less exp and hero kills granted more then I’d totally agree with hots being THE teamfight moba

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Would be fun if it worked that way.

I think Blizzard wanted to make a game that had teamfighting as its core, and used the moba frame as it was popular at the time. Quite sad they didn’t try to make something even more daring that went even further away from mobas…

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Sure it is situational but you have team compositions to fight (against a beefy double frontline), where it is the better choice. In combination with Black Harvest, Touch of Death and Mortality, Malthael can “melt” down his enemies.

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I personally disagree with your opinion that moving around the map to collect objective is boring, rather, i find not having an objective boring. But I do understand the idea at least.

This is probably because I started with HoTS and have only recently started to branch out into other mobas.

What do you think of maps like Blackhearts’ Bay and Warhead Junction? Those always felt more “jungle-y” to me than the other maps due to those specific objectives.

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