How to increase the player base

[Flinx-1851]

@Nagah-21122

Google Heroes of the storm Hgc and you will see the advertising
Advertising does not just mean that you produce a commercial and broadcast it

Advertising DURING HGC doesn’t really count IMHO… People had to already know about HOTS in order to watch HGC. For advertising to bring in new players, it has to been seen outside of the HOTS environment.

[Kilometer-11340]

Dude, it is a figure of speech.

Let’s be real here. If HoTS can’t even sustain its remaining population before HGC got cancelled, why do you think that doing MORE advertising will help the game again?

[anon63608959]

@Karabars-2813

Let’s be honest about one thing = a Medivh player cannot possibly have an objective picture of how bad the matchmaker is cause that is THE hero to go to when having a bullsh composition, IN FACT, that is the hero that works IN FAVOR of bullsh compositions as opposed to well-composed ones…

YET ALONE, a high-level Medivh player, that’s like yet another layer of disconnect from the reality of this game tbh

Be as it may, one way or another = Ranked play needs/ed a MAJOR (if not a complete) overhaul, and AGAIN, I’m HIGHLY SKEPTICAL that merging HL & TL would fix the issue (in fact as said above, have a suspicion would make it worse)

[ED: oops, wrong thread, but the same arguments appeal I guess, lol]

[Karabars-2813]

@Kilometer-11340

HoTS can’t even sustain its remaining population before HGC got cancelled

Source? On what do you base this?

@Kilometer-11340

why do you think that doing MORE advertising will help the game again?

1. It’s not “MORE”, it’s “any”, HotS doesn’t have advertisements outside of its own playerbase.
2. Every day there are new players in the world, ready to try out games. But if they don’t hear about HotS or not in time…
3. I know there are some ppl who blame the team-aspects of the game (like shared xp) for it’s unsuccess, and they have a point from a certain view, but there are a lot of ppl who love that maybe even prefer HotS because of that over the other mobas.
   “Singleplayer” will always be more popular, even in multiplayer games, because everyone wants to feel as a “god”, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t a good amount ppl enjoying a real teamgame.

[Karabars-2813]

@anon63608959

Let’s be honest about one thing = a Medivh player cannot possibly have an objective picture of how bad the matchmaker

1. Yes they can.
2. Tho Medivh is my no1 fav and most played Hero, I play all the Heroes, so I have a non-Medivh view on the game.

[Lunafreya-11112]

@HOMEGALULTS-1266

Just make a good game

I give hots a 6.5 / 10

This is really all it comes down to. If they made a good game from the start instead of focusing on microtransactions, HotS would be alive and well today.

[Slamabrewski-1261]

Or since new accounts get those 20 hero bundles, just make free chests way more prevalent. Since loot chests will probably receive anti-gaming legislation in the near future, just make them way easier to get, since everything in the shop can now be bought with shards or gems. If every player got loot chests for games played more frequently you could build out your skins and heroes a lot faster feeling incentivized to play matches more without feeling gated.

Give loot chests for games played in addition to hero levels.
Basic chest every 3 matches - 60-90 minutes (match time + queue)
Rare chest every 5 matches - 100-150 minutes
Epic chest every 10 matches - 200 - 300 minutes
Legendary chest every 20 matches - 400 - 600 minutes

20 Matches = 6 Basic, 4 Rare, 2 Epic, 1 Legendary chest

This is HUGE incentive for new accounts. I already have all but 4 Heroes, so for me this means season loot shards, skins and mounts.

[Kilometer-11340]

@Karabars-2813

Source? On what do you base this?

Based on the pathetic viewers’ number at twitch and the playerbase in MY REGION? Of course, you will deny it because, in your eyes, HoTS is a perfection. It is always simply lack of “advertising” to flourish, not because the majority of the gamers dislike the game core.

Bet you must be one of the camps who think Blizzard canceled HCG because they were greedy, and not because it didn’t do well in financial wise.

@Karabars-2813

• It’s not “MORE”, it’s “any”, HotS doesn’t have advertisements outside of its own playerbase.
• Every day there are new players in the world, ready to try out games. But if they don’t hear about HotS or not in time…
• I know there are some ppl who blame the team-aspects of the game (like shared xp) for it’s unsuccess, and they have a point from a certain view, but there are a lot of ppl who love that maybe even prefer HotS because of that over the other mobas.
  “Singleplayer” will always be more popular, even in multiplayer games, because everyone wants to feel as a “god”, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t a good amount ppl enjoying a real teamgame.

1 & 2. It can’t even sustain/prevent the existing players from not quitting the game. Fixing or improve the game is what they needed before they even considering to advertise this game. You can throw other millions to advertise this game, and it still going to yield the same result as the current HoTS state.

3.Majority of people like Individual exp, thus they went to DoTA 2 or LoL or other MoBA game. A minority of the people like shared exp, thus they went to HoTS, thus HoTS became a niche/minority game, earning lesser money for Blizzard and you guys wondering why is this game doesn’t appealing to the mass.

[Karabars-2813]

@Kilometer-11340

Based on the pathetic viewers’ number at twitch

I’d never base a game well-being on twitch when I know myself almost never watch it, but instead playing myself and yourself said as well that there are a lot of ppl who play vsAI why would AI players watch it. HotS still has 2 million followers. Not the best, but far from terrible imo.

@Kilometer-11340

and the playerbase in MY REGION?

You don’t know the numbers in your region. So I can’t understand how can you base anything on something you don’t know.

@Kilometer-11340

Of course, you will deny it because, in your eyes, HoTS is a perfection.

Ad hominem.

@Kilometer-11340

It is always simply lack of “advertising” to flourish, not because the majority of the gamers dislike the game core.

Looks like you have problems processing what you read.
I said as well, that the majority of gamers will never like HotS more than the other mobas (tbh mobas are a bit out of popularity, battle royal is the new “meta”) because they want to be The “God”, focusing on themselves, being The Player, The Playmaker. The one who carried the match.
But there are still players who would like HotS for what it is but don’t know about the game. Or the ones like you, who don’t prefer every mechanic yet still playing the game. Advertising is always useful. The main way to get successful is to be known.

@Kilometer-11340

Bet you must be one of the camps who think Blizzard canceled HCG because they were greedy, and not because it didn’t do well in financial wise.

I won’t buy lottory if I were you then.

@Kilometer-11340

It can’t even sustain/prevent the existing players from not quitting the game.

Source? Again the “twitch numbers”? Can you show me how much it dropped? Not the viewers but the followers.

@Kilometer-11340

Fixing or improve the game is what they needed before they even considering to advertise this game.

What needs fixing/improving in the game in your opinion?
First, mobas are always changing. Second, if you say QM I can’t help myself but laugh.

@Kilometer-11340

You can throw other millions to advertise this game, and it still going to yield the same result as the current HoTS state.

That’s simply not true but I guess you never read about marketing.

@Kilometer-11340

Majority of people like Individual exp, thus they went to DoTA 2 or LoL or other MoBA game. A minority of the people like shared exp, thus they went to HoTS, thus HoTS became a niche/minority game, earning lesser money for Blizzard and you guys wondering why is this game doesn’t appealing to the mass.

1. Individual xp was first, ppl get used to it plus it makes them feel special so they like it.
2. LoL and Dota was here a lot longer than HotS, those who like mobas started those and since those created the genre, those ppl got their preferences from them. HotS was late to this market but still holds the third place, which is good.
3. We don’t wonder why this game is not the no1 moba. Not mainstream enough. It was created for Blizz players, with something new in the genre which is true team-mechanics.
   But it’s a good game. Game won’t be bad just because they don’t copy other games nor they will become successful just because they copy them.

So again. What are your problems with HotS (don’t say QM for your own sake xD ) and mind that you still play it despite of those problems.

[Sinbreaker-1634]

Make vs AI give the same experience as a QM. It has always been fun when I do vs AI in co-op. Everyone works together and no one throws the match. QM, at least 50% I’ve played been people feeding or bots dying over and over. Very frustrating.

[phaseshifter-1283]

There was the twitch Prime thing.

[Kilometer-11340]

@Karabars-2813

I’d never base a game well-being on twitch when I know myself almost never watch it, but instead playing myself and yourself said as well that there are a lot of ppl who play vsAI why would AI players watch it. HotS still has 2 million followers. Not the best, but far from terrible imo.

The twitch numbers are important for Blizzard because more viewers, more sponsorship and more cheers money. Had HoTS have 20k views on every day and 200k on tourney, I bet they won’t cancel the HCG.

@Karabars-2813

You don’t know the numbers in your region. So I can’t understand how can you base anything on something you don’t know.

Before HoTS 2.0, I almost never encounter the same player in HL game in the same night. Now? I am literally facing 5 or 6 same players from the previous match in the HL game for the whole week. I just experienced the same thing just now in my HL games.

@Karabars-2813

Ad hominem.

At this point, stop pretending that we are on a friendly term.

@Karabars-2813

I won’t buy lottory if I were you then.

I never buy a lottery.

@Karabars-2813

That’s simply not true but I guess you never read about marketing.

The marketing team from Blizzard said otherwise.

@Karabars-2813

Source? Again the “twitch numbers”? Can you show me how much it dropped? Not the viewers but the followers.

Do you think average 3k viewers for HoTS before HCG got canceled is healthy? Compare to other games, it is pitiful.

@Karabars-2813

What needs fixing/improving in the game in your opinion?
First, mobas are always changing. Second, if you say QM I can’t help myself but laugh.

I did say something about gameplay core such as team sharing in my many previous posts. So it is really beyond me how you ended up at “if you say QM”.

@Karabars-2813

Looks like you have problems processing what you read.
I said as well, that the majority of gamers will never like HotS more than the other mobas (tbh mobas are a bit out of popularity, battle royal is the new “meta”) because they want to be The “God”, focusing on themselves, being The Player, The Playmaker. The one who carried the match.
But there are still players who would like HotS for what it is but don’t know about the game. Or the ones like you, who don’t prefer every mechanic yet still playing the game. Advertising is always useful. The main way to get successful is to be known.

@Karabars-2813

• Individual xp was first, ppl get used to it plus it makes them feel special so they like it.
• LoL and Dota was here a lot longer than HotS, those who like mobas started those and since those created the genre, those ppl got their preferences from them. HotS was late to this market but still holds the third place, which is good.
• We don’t wonder why this game is not the no1 moba. Not mainstream enough. It was created for Blizz players, with something new in the genre which is true team-mechanics.
  But it’s a good game. Game won’t be bad just because they don’t copy other games nor they will become successful just because they copy them.

Blizzard had been marketing this game for 3 years plus, and the result is not satisfying. This should tell you that the primary game design isn’t appealing to the mass. Even the new game like Overwatch easily surpassed HoTS in term of popularity despite it came out late.

If you really think that spending millions to get a few new players is a good business decision or thinking it is an instant fix to the situation, I am kinda worried about your business prospect.

Is being 3rd is something worth to brag considering that the gap between 2nd and 3rd place is enormous? At this point, there is only 3 noticeable MoBA game in the market and placed in 3rd does feel like the last place to me.

@Karabars-2813

So again. What are your problems with HotS (don’t say QM for your own sake xD ) and mind that you still play it despite of those problems.

Is playing QM is a derogatory term now? I keep seeing you repeating this a lot.

Yes, I am still playing, just not as many as you believed, in fact, I just took a break from HoTS for 2 weeks. Also, whether I am still playing or not playing HoTS, I am certainly not a potential customer that Blizzard wants as I stop spending money in this game for a long time. The game can be shut down tomorrow and I won’t feel a damn thing. I am just not delusional enough to believe that advertising will help the game to grow.

[Karabars-2813]

@Kilometer-11340

Before HoTS 2.0, I almost never encounter the same player in HL game in the same night. Now? I am literally facing 5 or 6 same players from the previous match in the HL game for the whole week. I just experienced the same thing just now in my HL games.

HL got empty with enabeling Solo queue TL. In TL you won’t run into the same ppl that often. Also running into the same ppl is partially due to ending match and starting queue at the same time.
But HL and TL will get merged, problem solved.

@Kilometer-11340

At this point, stop pretending that we are on a friendly term.

Again, ppl not using ad hominem is not the sign of friendship or friendly manner, it’s just the requirements for civil discussions. I don’t care if you like me or not. But I won’t use ad hominem on you, because my goal is discussing and not bashing at others. That’s the mature and cultural way so that’s what I -as someone intellectual- want and have to follow.

@Kilometer-11340

The marketing team from Blizzard said otherwise.

Citation needed.

@Kilometer-11340

Do you think average 3k viewers for HoTS before HCG got canceled is healthy? Compare to other games, it is pitiful.

3k is the average now, after cancelation. With HGC is what around 27k when I saw it.

@Kilometer-11340

I did say something about gameplay core such as team sharing in my many previous posts. So it is really beyond me how you ended up at “if you say QM”.

I wanted you to list your problems. All. And just warned you, listing QM would be dull, because it’s designed to be chaotic and the community asked for the removal of the more balanced MM.
If your problem is shared xp, this game is not for you. They won’t change that. Changing HotS’ unique aspects to look more like it’s rivals would just kill the game.

@Kilometer-11340

Blizzard had been marketing this game for 3 years plus

There weren’t much marketing outside of Blizz games like ever. But from Blizz game promotions: a lot of the ppl I know came with the OW promotion. So it had a big impact indeed.

@Kilometer-11340

If you really think that spending millions to get a few new players is a good business decision or thinking it is an instant fix to the situation, I am kinda worried about your business prospect.

Every game needs new players.
What situation needs fixing again? What are the problems?

[Flinx-1851]

@Kilometer-11340

Blizzard had been marketing this game for 3 years plus

Really??? Where? I only EVER saw advertising for this game in the BNet launcher and during HGC matches… And guess what? Advertising the game to people who are already watching HGC isn’t going to bring in new players, because everyone who watches HGC already plays HOTS.

[anon63608959]

Honestly that reply should’ve been a meme reply (kind of) , guess the bet now is raised on another level so a joke wouldn’t work… Oh well, point still stands though = advertisement doesn’t make a bad shipment be good, that’s like one of the worse (if not THE WORST) characteristics of modern-day society = basically treating people like mindless sheep that have no intelligence what-so-ever

YET forget that even if, EVEN IF, consumers are “less inteligent” they’re still SUPER EMOTIONAL, and simply put from the most-basic of the most-basic standpoints = things that don’t work leave BAD emotions (therefore less consumes)

[Jace-12675]

Seems people are split into two camps on this one. Needs Advertisement vs Game is Bad.

Maybe fix both things.

Sound too hard? Reasons to try:

1. Make money.
2. Restore reputation… So Blizzard can continue to make more money.

The game has problems, agreed. The core identity of the game is something that some people want to play. Those who do not. Bye People will only stick around and spend money if the game is enjoyable. Lots of people who might enjoy the game have never heard of it.

Solutions:

1. Read the forums. see what people complain about, fix it. Also, see what people want, give it to them.
2. Stay true to who you are. The core idea of the game is that of a team working together to win. Shared XP, and inability to carry prove this. Teach people coming in to pull their weight, and not drag down everyone else. Also, give them ARAM if they want to just brawl, and direct them there.
3. Advertise the game, accurately showcasing it’s design around teamwork, and not a clip of a single Ult wiping a team. This should be done through articles on gaming sites, Streamers, and other long form methods that are not flash pop-ups.

Growing the player-base and teaching them how to actually play will most likely improve match quality more than tweaking the matchmaking at this point. My 2 cents at least.

[anon63608959]

OK, this is the shortest version of what I think Ranked should be like:

1 = Keep ranks (it’s part of e-peen, MMR is more like super-high-lvl show-off kind of thing), yes I know it can “boost” individuality but at the end of days don’t think we were restricted by rank much tbh, it’s like reducing the “pool of players” and not really affecting the MM (MMR on the other hand DID)
2 = Divide the playerbase in DIVISIONS, each having 200 (or 400 if not enough HL activity) players, have a SCOREBOARD VISIBLE at all times, not on the site, IN GAME, give ALL THE STATS of each player

=> Role with most success, Hero with highest WR, last 5 (or 7) W/L record, preselected roles for this season

3 = “preselected roles”, YES, make EACH and every player pick 2 ROLES they’d play… (split melee assassins as a separate role from ranged assa though)

4 = NO OUTER SEARCH, meaning what is in those 200 (or 400) players STAYS to play with/against ALL SEASON long

5 = Personal rewards for being top 10 = pick one additional hero (outside of the preselected roles) for next season you can ab/use in draft, KEEP IN MIND however = everyone will see what that hero is (on the scoreboard, and maybe during draft as well) by default

6 = TOP 20 (or 40 if 400) advance to higher division/rank, bottom 40 drop
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Benefits/differences

1 = first of all, this makes it a mini-tournament for each kinda player without necessarily FORCING the issue of “teamwork” (and by teamwork quotated I mean that “phenomenon” called META where you have to pick Hanzo or get flamed lol), meaning if you play Murky you can by all means continue doing so, the difference is that ALLIES will not be (or at least should not be) “pleasantly surprised” during the draft phase lol

2 = having an “accidental” success may give you “hefty amount” of possible improvement practise, right now get a higher rank you’ve ever been = congrats, you have TWO GAMES IN TOTAL to prove you “belong there” or drop off immediately down

3 = SEARCH TIMES, imagine being pre-matched with 200 (or 400) players and care to guess what the search times might look like ?, y, 10-15 seconds TOPS

4 = This isn’t really UNKNOWN or new, it’s quite the RL sports LEAGUE FORMAT where a PRESET amount of folk play against one another (as individuals or teams, you name it, doesn’t matter), so ppl/players should really fast and naturally adapt to the “new format” IMO

5 = Isn’t much strange/new to HotS players either (well at least the ones that are GM that is), cause they HAVE HAD the leaderboard where they can see each of their rankmate (partner or adversary) progress/result

6 = Should still keep the “interest” going forward/trying as long as the leaderboard is nice and tidy and shows achievements, winning streaks, top damage during game, highest KDA, lowest death amount per team, you name it…

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Long-story short (did a, was it 25 page ? word doc. where I explained problems of current MM and how MMR-based MM of “averaging strength” works), and the way how not each rank gets the “same fair treatment” this one should DEAL WITH BOTH those issues

Biggest issues in HL (my PoV) and how 200 (or 400) per division" could/should solve

Having 200 (or 400 ?) players in total you can play with/against pretty much secures that no “who the heck is this guy” gets into your ranked game/s all out of a sudden

1 = No more 35% of total playerbase placed in Silver and Gold each (meaning no longer super-big discrepancy of player skill level per squad, this differentia thins out as rank/skill goes upward or downward, Silver & Gold statistically should ? have had it by far the worst)

2 = MM by itself isn’t the problem (or at least wouldn’t have been) as long as we had an INSIGHT to what a player plays (or prefers to play the most), and even if, EVEN IF they get bored to play same few hero/es every game long, next season they can PRESELECT a different role (and if they managed to be a top 10 or so they could also keep their main hero as an “extra” reward)

Leaderboard mechanic, basic impact overview

THAT is what ranked should’ve been ALL THIS TIME tbh, the way as is = no leaderboard/s, no shared stats, no insight to potential allies, NOTHING, it’s like “deal with it yourselves” kind of “screw you” sign by the devs toward the playerbase tbh

IF there however WAS a feature that “minimizes the need for draft communication” and pretty much “minimizes the chance” for “unpleasant surprises” on a team think ppl would enjoy, OR AT LEAST not get disappointed as much by “things that simply don’t work” in their ranked games IMO

And lastly but not the least, already mentioned GM has a leaderboard => why can’t the rest of us get such a treatment ?, I mean we get “matched” with clown-fiesta (potentially up to 7% of total playerbase at any given moment) whilest GMs play like same 200-400 ppl most of the time that they even got to “personally” know each other of, why just not make the rank play a PYRAMID of small GM leagues that get updated frequently/often

Just imagine all the benefits of such a system whilest still able to preserve (well at least a decent amount) of a potentially “wonky” playstyle of yours

Instead what we got ? = Merging HL and TL, WHY ? = well, because the playerbase is small and would be EASIER (keep this word in mind = EASIER is the keyword, NOT necessarily better)

SMFH

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

OH, and one more VERY IMPORTANT THING = make blocks/bans be what they should’ve been in the first place = don’t match players with players that they’ve chosen NOT TO be matched with ffs… That alone might’ve saved the game from much of a bad “silence system” reputation in the first place but since the playerbase is kinda low ATM, IDK cap it to like 3 per player tops

[Drothvader-1215]

@ATM-1155

Personally, I’d like to see 3.0, with a massive release of like a hero from each universe.

I just want better matchmaking. If they took care of this one area they could do whatever else they wanted and the game would still grow.

[anon63608959]

@Drothvader-1215

@ATM-1155

Personally, I’d like to see 3.0, with a massive release of like a hero from each universe.

I just want better matchmaking. If they took care of this one area they could do whatever else they wanted and the game would still grow.

Honestly skill-wise isn’t that bad of a MM, it’s more of a “role-matching” issue the bigger problem, for example putting 5 players on a team in which NONE OF THEM mains (or actively plays) a tank lol

Think outside of ranked isn’t that bad, well in QM it is but partially that’s good cause you can “test your skills” in a “worse case scenario” on a certain new hero you just picked up tbh

If having time/interest = take a look at the post above I wrote, THAT is what IMO ranked should be and maybe, MAYBE by some miracle “returns” the faith of the playerbase toward the game tbh

[Drothvader-1215]

@anon63608959

Honestly skill-wise isn’t that bad of a MM, it’s more of a “role-matching” issue the bigger problem, for example putting 5 players on a team in which NONE OF THEM mains (or actively plays) a tank lol

I don’t think it’s the case. Weekends are very noticeably bad, especially Sundays. The matchmaker takes a complete nosedive on the weekend and it shows that skill level can’t be properly assessed in this game.