How player perception shapes the metagame

Well I agree that ppl shouldn’t echo what the pros do because the effectiveness of things there and in other ranks differ.
And agree that a lot of things are perception based and the community shouldn’t be narrowminded.

But!..

A Hero doesn’t need to change if the meta around it changes.
Counters and competitors getting nerfed, enablers getting buffed. Or just simply switch on who gets picked and how often.
These things can indirectly change how certain things work.

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Diablo:
Lightning Breath used to be on a 60 sec cd. So, of course W build with added spell power from Hellfire was strong. It’s not about a single video.

Ana:
She didn’t get reworked like Whitemane did (in the same context), just heavily tweaked her W talent since is was clearly OP.

KT:
Your talking about Pyroblast used in “pro games”. But, your reference is from a single player who’s far from being a top GM player and pick that ult 100% of the time.

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Metasheep bad. Also look at uther (top winrate healer) and rehgar (minor bl buff).

I do think theres a difference between over exaggerating weaknesses and believing that something is bad. It is hard to explain to lower ranked players why pyroblast isn’t an instawin.

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So … this means Artanis is S tier?

Hee hee…

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What reference are you referring to?

Not what I said. But hey. Maybe you know something others don’t :slight_smile:

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This one

I already stated his name, too.
You can check his talent choice.

https://www.heroesprofile.com/Player/Talents/?hero=Kael'thas&blizz_id=3697969&battletag=CPogX&region=1&season=&game_type=sl&map=

100% Pyro on 188 games played.

That’s not even the same topic! I never referenced that thread. I was not talking about that player. Or any player for that matter.

It’s on your favor to indicate us where KT was more recently used and Pyro picked.

Do you have links for that statement?

Perhaps I missed something here. Why did Blizz nerf Diablo if the perceptions were untrue?

Because he had a massive massive ban rate. If you were a diablo player in lower ranks you were unlikely to be able to play him.

If i recall correctly he was overtuned initially and then they nerfed q to the point where higher level players were like okay this is balanced. But that didn’t reduce his banrate in lower ranks so they reworked his q talents In a way which was essentially a nerf.

If living bomb complaints annoy you double that and we’ve hit about backlash diablo had. It was a nerf for lower ranked players and made q build unviable in uncoordinated play.

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So Blizz admits Diablo was overtuned, thus the nerf. Player perception was accurate in this case, correct? We can’t take everything pros say since they represent the minority of the playerbase.

I thought the rework to Diablo was stupid and I just flat out stopped playing him. Used to be my favorite tank.

Yes i think it was. But perception didnt change at all after first nerf and that’s when blizz said well this is unjustified but you guys hate him so much we’ll nerf again.

Idk I kind of feel like you came to the right conclusion with none of the right evidence.

Diablo: I feel like you completely missed the ball with your thoughts on Diablo, it wasn’t really ironic that everyone went Q Diablo, it was because q build diablo was the thing everyone hated playing against. When Blizzard nerfed it they themselves said that although they liked the playstyle, it wasn’t diablo’s place to oneshot people after level 16, even if he was underpreforming as a whole.

Ana is and always has been really good. They nerfed her in ways that generally targeted stopping the double support meta, and then to tone down the amount of quest bs she had. She’s still insanely good in masters, but I understand that is just because of Masters and is super different in other leagues.

Like Karabars mentioned for KT, nothing in a heroes kit has to change for them to become meta (because that’s how a meta works). Other heroes change, new ideas take hold, and then heroes become good in that meta. Again this was why the devs nerfed ana, because she was too good in the double support meta she kind of created. KT is good right now, not great, but he has a place, and honestly phoenix just isn’t strong enough right now.

I feel like you could have picked much better examples of this - the first one that comes to mind right now is Imperious, as although I and many other people think he is beyond busted, the stats continue to not show that.

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As far as I remember, the only thing they nerfed was his Q quest talent. Then he got more buffs. Including baseline Q damage.

Developer Comment: While Ana is currently not greatly outperforming other Healers, even at the highest level of play, she is being seen much more often compared to her peers. We’re reducing the healing power of Biotic Grenade, which should bring her down a notch as well as reduce the power of its associated talents.

Her anti healing is what the devs seemed to have a problem with.

Developer Comment: We’re changing up some of Ana’s talents to better compete with Biotic Grenade-related choices. Slumber Shells and Overdose are receiving some buffs and changes, and Anti-Healer’s bonus radius to Biotic Grenade is being dramatically reduced. While it still remains a powerful talent, Ana players will now have to be much more precise to deny healing on multiple members of the enemy team.

What would you say had changed when KT started being played? The nerfs to Genji and Tracer were done long before, so it wasn’t because he was less likely to be dived.

Forgive me, it’s been years since Diablo nerf, I don’t even remember what a Q build is. I also use custom keys…

You mean you have his charge on a different Key?

Well, everything is on a different key, that is besides the point. I’m not going to have you have translate a Q build to my keyboard setup :stuck_out_tongue:

What is a Q build?

Feast on Fear”, “sacrificial soul” “Devastating charge”, and “Domination”.

Basically you dealt tons of damage and kept gaining health and armor. You needed the right maps for it though. Usually infernal shrines.

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Oh, the one where you used to take heroes life away when you collide with a wall?

So a while back his q use to do percent damage and he could oneshot ppl, then he got reworked. During the rework they changed his q to not deal percent damage (13 talent), while decreasing it’s range, initial damage, and wall stun damage. For a bit people thought this killed q oneshots. Then blizzard changed the scaling on it but increased the max damage bonus (buff) of the 13 talent, which brought it back, which people still hated, so then bliz basically gutted the talent for the reasons I previously stated. Yes they have given q an extra 10 damage on wall stun since then. But I still don’t believe any of it had to do with W, and bliz stated their reasoning pretty clearly with it.

Here are the dev comments I was referring to - cut short -, although yes the giant grenade did get nerfed as well,

Developer Comment: Ana came to the Nexus during the ‘Quest Revolution’ where we were adding them in as many places as we could. We have learned a lot since that time
Developer Comment: While Ana’s current win-rate is sitting above most other Healers, and North of 50%, we have made some changes to make her feel more meaningful in solo-Support compositions.
Developer Comment: While Ana is showing a positive win rate, we’re still not seeing her picked up in the solo-Support position as often as we’d like.

Personally I think the downswing in support’s overall power as well as the upswing in tanks/bruisers overall power puts kael in a reasonable spot in the meta, because he has his own multiman stun, as well as shield level 1, and his abilities tend to work better on bigger, less* mobile people who play in melee range of each other.
Also pyro is particularly good against the top 3 supports in my mind right now, rehgar and ana and decard.

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