How likely is it getting triple hit with chaos reigns?

(alarak lvl 4 talent)

Just wondering, I feel like it’s about 1 in 3 games or sth, but if you might die this talent seems to be the best choice for bruiser build alarak. Just wondering.

Chaos Reign, directly on top of you?
More likely than you’d think!

Generally Chaos Reigns is a good option if your enemy team is prone to clustering or has extra hero count. An example would be healers like Alexstraza where they put a circle down and you can Deadly Charge combo it for 3 hits, or if they have TLV who are grouped together for a team fight. If they are spread out a lot then the talent is terrible as you will be unlikely to ever complete the quest.

For spread out comps Show of Force is probably better since it can combo off lone individuals and can make up some of the lost damage when it procs as well as with its bonus sadism.

The general melee build only needs Overwhelming Power and Lethal Onslaught. Both the above talents work with it as Chaos Reigns increases burst damage while Show of Force gives sadism which increases auto attack damage.

The damage of Show of Force scales with level. As such as the game progresses (level 20) it can end up better than even 2 target hit Chaos Reigns even if you have 0 sadism from the talent. As such for Chaos Reigns to be worth it, you really need to be able to complete it or at least get the 2 target bonus and complete it early during the match.

4 Likes

I got over 1700 games on Alarak, of the amount of games i actually played with chaos reigns, getting a triple is pretty rare, though if you can manage to get it very soon it’s CRAZY powerful, you can win the game on the back of that + some sadism fairly easy.

But like i said, it’s rare for it to happen, it’s better to go for Show of Force(which out damages it later in the game and if you only manage to get first 2 parts of the quest), or Negatively Charged if you go for E build(best vs many melee heroes, but can work very well regardless, as long as it’s not a QM game with no healer and tank).

2 Likes

Okay, yea I usually take it vs rexxar or tlv but else I go show of force too.

I was just wondering if it’s my ineptitude that I feel like you are more likely to not finish the quest than to do. Appearently it’s a common thing.

Would you say deadly charge should ever be taken?

Depends on the comp. It gives Alarak a form of dive and if he is stacked and skilled enough it can potentially allow him to delete 1 or more of the back line before tanks can respond, especially if they are not as a full team or the back line is low on health due to earlier damage. All it takes is 1-2 heroes to be killed and the fight is pretty much won.

However it is quite risky and needs a lot of skill (have to be able to land combo after arriving at destination near instantly) so is not my personal choice.

Deadly Charge i have only tried using maybe 20-30 times on 10, 30-100 more times on 20(pre rework LONG ago), and it best works by first having Counter Strike. Counter Strike is just far better, it is much needed protection, finisher etc. It also deals more damage and it’s 30 sec coldown makes it usable whenever, while deadly charge is 45 which makes it to be used more carefully.

With deadly charge you won’t be able to protect yourself from other ults(pyro, lamb to the slaughter etc), and i have seen many use this ult to charge in and die. In my opinion and by the data you can find on hotslogs/heroesprofile you will see that most prefer it for a good reason(better winrate).

1 Like

Deadly charge has always had higher winrate throughout the years of alarak, so yes, taking it at 10 should usually be the default choice unless you need the other one for survival.
My general rule of thumb though: the more uncoordinated the game, the better is deadly charge. In a competitive top level game, you’d probably never take it; in a bronze pub game, you would pretty much always take it.

3 Likes

Unless you can catch 3 people stacking up you will never hit 3 people on one hit.
Even vs Lost Vikings and Samuro you will have a hard time getting your quest cause a good Viking/Sam player will never let you do it.

1 Like

TLV, samuro, nova - 100% to a) complete the quest or b) make them play very suboptimally to avoid giving you the quest (the correct choice for them would be to just give you the quest, as the alternative costs way too much).
Alex, auriel ± kharazim comps - very high chance of early completion (might need to die for it, if you really want to force the completion). Same story here - they either “dodge” the healing all game long or just give the quest. If they avoid the healing the entire game, you win way more than completing the quest anyway. Could probably think of a few more examples.

P.S. In case it’s unclear for nova: nova + 2 baseline images (usually with the most optimal image damage build).

The 120 damage is “balanced” baseline for that quest though, 220 is just icing on the cake.

2 Likes

The issue is that 120 damage ends up weaker by level 20 than Show of Force’s bonus damage alone, and Show of Force gives sadism on top of that boosting overall hero damage as well. As such it is either an early completion for 220 damage, or you might as well take Show of Force for a better long game.

1 Like

Do you mean when having a lot of sadism or even at 100 or less?

I’m really struggling to feel like alarak isn’t a bit undertuned, I know how oppressive he can be, but while I like him he always feels so inconsistent. Maybe he should be reworked I dunno.

He should be, i don’t know what the reasoning for the first rework even was, i am pretty sure that it was “low winrate” and people whinning it’s too hard to play etc. But i prefer the old Alarak, he wasn’t hyper focused onto the combo.

OLD ALARAK:
Old Alarak had on his trait only he bonus damage against heroes, lowering his PVE damage, so no up to 30% sadism gain(3% per takedown), his damage was also more spread out onto his other 2 abilities of Telekinesis and Lightning Surge(This one had NO in between bonuses and it dealt if i recall correctly 150% more damage than it does now, which has been nerfed to only do 100% bonus dmg for targets in between, upped to 175% with Negatively Charged + the infinite quest). And he had no Double Cross baseline talent, so his Discord Strike was about a third smaller and shorter in the front and no perpendicular area.

Old Alarak had a harder time hitting his combo until 7 where he had 3 good talents for it, Double Cross(now baseline), Reckless Strike(removed the 0.75 sec delay, but made you vulnerable for 2 seconds, this one should of just had the vulnerability removed as it didn’t perform well, but i prefered it as you could walk up to someone and hit them with it no problem, and it made any quick dashes out of telekinesis impossible), and Cycle of Discord(lowered the coldown from 8 to 6 seconds, and if you didn’t hit ANY target it lowered it by further 3 seconds down to 3). Now this Cycle if Discord was the solution to all those failed combos, because even if you missed the combo, you could skill hit them with it, since you already pulled them towards yourself with Telekinesis.

Old Alarak also had NO infinite stacking Rite of Rak’Shir at 13.
These were his lvl 13s:

Level 13
Psychokinesis (W)
Increases the damage of Telekinesis by 100%

Pure Malice (Passive)
When a nearby Ally Hero dies, your Sadism bonus is increased by 8%, stacking up to 40%. This bonus Sadism cannot be consumed by Hasty Bargain and is lost on death.

Dissonance (Q)
Reduces the damage bonus of Sadism by 10%, but increases Discord Strike’s silence duration by 0.75 seconds.

Hindered Motion (W)
Reduces the damage bonus of Sadism by 10%, but Telekinesis slows enemies by 40% for 1.5 seconds.

In summary Old Alarak had NO problems of too low, too high sadism, because he was never meant or made into a snowball hero, most of his talents were quite strong, but they cost you permanent sadism, you could go as low as 60 sadism without Hasty Bargain. You could sacrifice a ton of your damage in order to gain POWERFUL CC effects, or have HIGH damage. You could build him so that at around lvl 10 you could hit with Lightning Surge every 4 seconds, FULL damage directly, and heal much more than you do now, i recall hitting several heroes, not sure how many and going up by more than half my health.

I miss old Alarak, i was at 55% winrate before the rework i never asked for, and then i dropped to almost 49%, he was a completely different hero, his E barely did any damage or healing, only decent damage for targets in between which can be played around well, and most of his damage moved to his Discord Strike, and he became a snowball hero…

His old talents: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/4y4wwx/alarak_full_talent_descriptions_from_grubby/

1 Like

Mhm you’re right if you miss Q now you almost lost the fight

It used to be true on OG Alarak, but not NEARLY as much, now it’s win or lose unless you went E build and stacked it well, which due to popularity they kept nerfing and introduced the Power Overwhelming talent to find the E build popularity(which only rose to popularity because they made him a one trick pony he NEVER was).

Yea I just like the psy powered theme and alarak when not getting absolutely rekt is very fun to play. But in ranked I rarely pick him due to low consistency.

If there is no mephisto or such, I usually have the highest hero dmg and I get a decent amount of soak and siege dmg too for dealing less to nonheroes.

But my problem is if we lose one tf lategame it’s a much tougher comeback than with other heroes that become very powerful naturally later in the game.

Especially with Hasty Bargain which is a murder talent on Alarak, somehow you don’t win a few minutes after getting it, your sadism goes to 0, double combo for single high sadism combo of damage.

And no i won’t pick Deadly Charge at 20 as Hasty Bargain is WAY more powerful than anything at 20 for Alarak, or for most heroes, also without Counter Strike at 10, you are extremely susceptible to CC, like Lamb to the Slaughter.

I dont take hasty bargain but last laugh mostly because you can escape pretty mch anything and not lose sadism.
I only take hasty bargain if enemy has no keeps or generally when the game will soon be over.

What do you think about orphea, I feel like she is very similar to alarak?

She can be much more dangerous than Alarak, i have tried learning her hard, i think i only reached 45% winrate on her last i tried, CC murders her or bad micro. You can’t afford to miss your Q when diving or team fighting as your damage will drop hard, but not as much as with Alarak, she is also a very good solo laner due to the fact of that heal on minion kills talent(which can snowball pretty hard). She can be played much safer than Alarak but also much more agressive, and with that she can solo a team if they don’t have easy to hit CC like the 0 skill KTZ ult, which Alarak can escape from via Counter Strike if far away otherwise KTZ combo arrives after, Butcher also murders her, unless you use the Jaws ult just before he hits.

How many games what rank?

I recently played her and she feels similar like I either win hard or I die a lot, but unlike alarak I feel like it’s more due to the drafts not the kit so I wonder when to take her. I usually play bruisers tho so ^^

if you mean lvl 7 that only heals on heroes kills