[HC] Lana'thel, Blood-Queen of the San'layn

Blood-Queen Lana’thel is the leader of the San’layn, a group of Kael’thas’ greatest followers, raised in undeath by the Lich King and transformed into vampiric beings.

Lana’thel is an aggressive melee Support who uses her Health as fuel and transforms Heroes into vampiric beings, enabling allies who rely heavily on dealing Spell Damage.

Here’s the link to the concept:
https://www.heroesfire.com/hots/concept/lanathel-10264

So I had this concept in my mind a long time ago. Unfortunately I haven’t had the time finishing it until now, but I still find the timing is great! Halloween is soon here and Mal’ganis being released this month, I’m sure he wouldn’t mind another vampire, not any kind, a Blood-Queen! :smiley:

Please let me know your thoughts about the concept. If you have better ideas, better abilities names, discovered a typo, found something too op, please feel free to comment, It’d be much appreciated! :slight_smile:

If you also have problems with HeroesFire site, please let me know, I’ll rewrite the concept here.

2 Likes

Hey Streber! I really like the idea of bringing Lana’thel into the game as an aggressive support, and the idea of allowing her to combo with spell based heroes in quite interesting. I do have a couple of notes, though the design is pretty solid.

So first of all, the changes you were considering, I think upping her damage and lowering the amount she heals would be a good idea. Right now, she seems pretty passive of a character. Bite your mages and then you can deal a little bit of poke with your spells. She’s never a really big threat, nor does so provide much direct healing. Her main use is through her passive, with some clutch usage of her W occasionally.

Another of the proposed changes you offered that I agree with is the health costs of her heroics being removed. I think this is a needed change, as both of her heroics seem less tempting purely because of their sizeable costs. Casting her Bloodbolt Whirl is equivalent of getting hit by a Flamestrike by Kael’thas, and while she has good health, it still definitely makes an impact.

The last considered change that I think should be implemented is the nullification of Bloodbolt Whirl working with Twilight Bloodbolts. Unless you had no talents for or only a single tier dedicated to Twilight Bloodbolt, the heroic benefiting from talents makes the heroic shoe-holed into an E built, which makes the options feel more diluted.

A major change that I think needs to be made is to give her more of a way to heal herself. AS it stands right now, she is basically going to just slowly die over time. All of her abilities cost more than she can possibly restore, and even if she didn’t use anything and just used her Q on enemies (risky), she would take a long while to heal back up to a good amount. You can make the argument that hitting a large group of enemies with her E would heal her slightly, but I think this is unrealistic to expect. What I would like to see is her Q heal her by a lot more if she hits an enemy Hero with it, to offer her some good sustain. Without any sustain and just slowly dying, she is less useful as a healer than old Ana, and most people hated a solo Ana support.

The last thing I want to talk about is that the W could probably use some clarity. While I think I understand it, I would like some clarification.

Anyways, it was a nice read, and I hope to see you around!

1 Like

Hey Bliztron! Just the kind of feedback that I was looking for! Thanks for taking the time to review and write down your thoughts about the concept, I very much appreciate it!

Reviewing the Health costs again, you are right, other than engaging the enemy directly she doesn’t have any self-heal. I guess I was caught up too much into giving her weaknesses and counter play that I got carried away in that regard. My original design had actually a Blood system, but I felt that her kit is already compact with her having two combat traits. I still wanted to fulfil the fantasy of her not using mana, but actual blood to fuel her spells and Health costs were the first thing that came to my mind as she is already based on life-stealing (and life-giving!) after all. Even though she doesn’t use mana, I still wanted her to have some sort of limitations. Currently the only ways of sustaining herself as you mentioned are Biting an enemy combined with Q talents which is risky, applying Bleeding damage, also risky, and hitting more than one enemy Hero with Twilight Bloodbolt, which isn’t much realistic. Some other talents that provide her with more sustain are the quests, and mostly level 16/20 talents, but those come into play way too late.

So after some thoughts, I decided to increase Twilight Bloodbolt damage by roughly 30%, from 190 to 250 damage, and reducing its Health cost by ca. 60%, from 190 to 75. This way she’ll always get the Health cost refunded if she hits a Hero, giving her more poke damage without sacrificing health for it, and she’ll also heal an additional amount if she has engaged the enemy through Bite of the Blood Queen, giving her more survivability in close combat in addition to biting an enemy and applying Bleeding damage. This change will also maintain the main intention of rewarding skilful plays and punishing misplays by wasting an amount of her HP, if she misses.

Additionally, I also decided to remove the Health cost of Blood Mirror, as it also thematically wouldn’t fit its purpose having a Health cost. This means Lana’thel has another way of healing herself every 14 seconds all while negating burst damage from herself and an ally. Linking an ally allows her to use her other abilities free of cost and heal out of them for free. Additionally if she talents into Blood Bond, she’d also benefit from the Linked ally self-heal. I’ll explain more about BM ability at the end of this post.

The last resort I’m considering, is increasing her Health regen as if she is regening mana as well, to help her out a bit.

Pre these changes, I tried to make her damage at level 0 (both ability and BA), for example over a period of 4 seconds, almost match that of Kharazim (Iron Fist) and Rehgar as they are both aggressive supports who can deal decent amount of damage (surprisingly both deal comparable amount of damage to a single target in a perfect set up over 4s). The increased Twilight Bloodbolt damage is going to give Lana’thel the burst damage she needs and also makes her a threat that must be dealt with. It’d balance out not having direct heals or CC. However this damage increase is going to create another problem of making Bloodbolt Whirl damage “a bit too much” that I’ll talk about soon after.

Also in the efforts of making her more of an active healer, not just a passive support, I took your advice of reducing trait’s life-steal bonus to 30% against Heroes. In exchange to that, she gets more E damage as mentioned above. Additionally, I integrated the “Cut the Throat” second reward into her base kit, making Delirious Slash always deal Spell Damage. I’m still figuring out other ways of making her more active, less passive and also less Ana-like regarding her self-heal out of combat. I believe, she has now the damage that makes her more of a hybrid, a tanky semi-assassin and support.

Now to the Heroic problem: I’m going to take your advice of removing Health costs from her Heroics. This would also give her a way of free self-heal. The idea behind Bloodbolt Whirl using talented Twilight Bloodbolts was to give the opportunity of improving one heroic outside of its usual tiers, while also being strong of its own even if the player chooses to talent into something else. For example Abathur’s Carapace Shield build is definitely the build that goes better with Evolve Monstrosity. Still that heroic can be effective of its own. Both Level 20 upgrades of Leoric’s March of the Black King and Tyrande’s Starfall benefit from W and D builds respectively. Same thing I did with Swarming Shadows level 20 upgrade.

That all being said, I’m more now convinced of what you have said and thus changed Bloodbolt Whirl text into “throw untalented Twilight Bloodbolts…”. Also due to the damage increase, I decided to reduce the number of Bolts to 3 over 3 second.

Blood Mirror Explanation: Think of it more like Medivh’s W, with some limitations. Best way of explaining it is by giving an example: Let’s say Lana’thel with 1500 health casts BM on Stitches with 810 health that is being targeted by a Pyroblast (810). For the next 1.5 seconds, both Lana’thel and Stitches become one, more like Cho’gall, with one HP of 1500 + 810 = 2310. Pyroblast hits Stitches and the shared Health Points of both become 1500. Stitches manages to use Devour during Blood Mirror gaining 600 health. After Blood Mirror expires, both are set to their own Health Points they separately had before casting BM but they keep the healing received, meaning Lana’thel returns to her own 1500 HP, and Stitches to 810 + the healing received through Devour = 1410.

If Stitches had 200 health and Lana’thel had 100 health, then Pyroblast would have killed them both! just how it’d kill a Cho’gall with 300 HP!. That’s its limitation, so it should be used carefully!

Back to the first example, if Lana’thel talented into Blood Bond, she’d also receive the healing from Devour, setting her health to 2100.

If Lana’thel was targeted by Pyroblast and casts Blood Mirror on an enemy, she deals 50% of its damage to the enemy and heals 30% off that damage.

Hope that explained it better and I realized I used Health Pool instead of Health Points in the ability description and the word infused instead of added Hit Points which didn’t make it very clear, mb :smiley:

In the same link, you can find summarized version of this post in the changelog and an updated list of possible changes. Any more feedback to the changes or more ideas to the overall concept are much appreciated

I want to thank you again for the feedback, Bliztron. It’s always nice to get other points of view as they can be an eye-opener to some issues that one might have missed.

P.S: Adding more self-heals when biting an enemy as you suggested is definitely on the list the next time I edit the HC. Thinking of possible solutions made me totally forget about this obvious one haha.

2 Likes

Hi all!

I just made a complete ability and talent rework for Lana’thel for those who are interested. I feel I left Lana’thel in a bad state and wasn’t completely satisfied how she turned out to be.

In the Changelog section you can find a list of changes that I made and some comments on why I did those changes. I’m still very grateful to Bliztron comment that opened my eyes on multiple issues and I would still appreciate any feedback from all of you.

One issue though still remains and that is her damage. After this rework she has now multiple ways of healing allies, including tanks and not just mages, and due to some new synergies, I’m very afraid of upping her damage. At the same time I fall into the debate, whether she should have same damage as other healers which isn’t much or should she really fulfill the aggressive role that was intended for her by giving her more threatening presence.

For now, the amount of heals she does because of her damage still feels maybe a bit too much? maybe it isn’t. Any help on the matter would be amazing.

I hope you enjoy reading this concept and for those who already read it, I hope you find it refreshing reading it again and as much enjoyable.

1 Like