When it comes to QM match where there is no tank, bruiser will be “tank” for that match, for example, Artanis + 4 non tank vs Dehaka (or DVA) + 4 non tank.
But then, having Artanis vs Dehaka/DvA doesn’t even make any sense especially in the QM, and that kind of match is extremely favored towards Dehaka/DVA.
First of all, Dehaka or DVA can “tank” better, “escape” better than Artanis. So the team with the Artanis will lose hard since Artanis can’t “tank” as good as these 2 heroes, and the issue apparently became more apparent when both teams are fighting at Lv20.
So yeah, this is ridiculous and I had been blamed by my team many times for being a terrible “tank” compare to Dehaka/DVA in those QM matches.
The new QM matchmaking with defined role can’t come sooner.
i dont think artanis is really the issue so much as it takes 4 chains of cc to kill a dva, just do your part and report the tracer, genji, dva players for ruining QM
I have never had a problem tanking on Artanis, even against true tanks such as a Diablo or pre-nerf Garrosh. Yes, Artanis doesn’t have an escape, but that just means you have to pick your engagements more carefully. Don’t dive in if they have a lot of CC, but wait until Dehaka tries to engage, then reverse swap him deeper into your team, preferably out of lane so he has a harder time generating essence. For D Va, wait until she pops D Matrix, then swap her such that it lands outside of your team.
Other than that, take shield talents based on the comp you are facing, and use point-blank swaps and bodyblocking to help your team land kills. Although Artanis’ signature move is his godswap, you don’t have to combo to engage.
Not too long ago, I had a match on Sky Temple where the teams were Artanis (me), Kerrigan, Whitemane, Zeratul, and Sgt Hammer (who was terrible) versus Dehaka, Fenix, Genji, Brightwing, and Tychus. Diving deep into that comp would be suicidal, so I had to know that I could only bite off what I could chew, and always make sure I was protecting and enabling the Whitemane who was keeping me in the fight. At then end of the match, their Dehaka had died 4 times, and I died only once. I had 42k hero damage compared to Dehaka’s 30k, and his self-healing was 18k compared to my 31k of shielding. The map was Sky Temple, which means I could keep fights in places where he couldn’t regain essence easily.
It isn’t a matter of having escapes, it is all in knowing how to engage.
I believe that the new QM matchmaking system would not make things better for you, you will easily find a new scapegoat
The only way MOBA’s are balanced is by draft modes - QM can never be truly balanced even with the upcoming changes… That’s something you have to understand and then think again what you should expect when you play QM…
Another issue might be that you take your team mates too seriously. Just because they flame you does not mean they have a valid reason. Most bad players just look for scapegoats (and that’s the reason they stay bad)
How does it not make sense? They’re all “bruisers”. It’s not going to pick a matchup of bruisers depending on how favorable it is versus the enemy bruiser. It’s just gonna pick… two bruisers.
Honestly I’m mostly just shocked anyone could even imply that D.Va is better than any bruiser at anything besides Chen. I’m mostly joking but cmon y’all
Imo it is more or less favorable for Artanis in those situations for a number of reasons.
Artanis selfsustain is significantly better over time where as Dehaka’s is a burst of sustain through farmable essence. When he’s burned this he’s not nearly as tanky anymore. Dehaka’s Drag is also the only relevant ability in his entire kit so if he misses this one you’ll basically never take damage.
Artanis is also one who can do exceptionally well without a healer because of this. You just need to practice how to maximize shield uptime and CDR windows.
D.va is also not better than anyone at anything. She’s more or less a waste of time since whenever her self destruct is on CD she just runs around trying to recharge it doing minimal damage and minimal disruption.
However I’m not trying to pick on you but I think this thread isn’t a hero problem but a player problem. Practice more with Artanis and you’ll see that these scenarios, especially in QM, won’t be much of a problem. The new matchmaking won’t help you because if you enter with this mindset you’ll find something else to blame it on. Focus on yourself and your own improvement, don’t assume the worst in the game.
Also, if you’re trying to fulfill the tank role and only that in QM I’d suggest you go the following:
Reactive Parry>Shield Battery>Warp Sickness/Chrono Surge/Follow Through>Suppression Pulse>Phase Bulwark>Force of Will>Heroic Upgrade/Plasma Burn
This will improve your shield uptime assuming you’re not 100% comfortable with your shield resets. When you get more comfortable with watching your trait and have the CDR as muscle memory you can start using Shield Surge in burst scenarios. You won’t do as much damage as normal and it’s perfectly fine to tank with talents such as Templar’s Zeal or Amateur Opponent but this will give you every little tool that Artanis can stack on top of his defensives in his kit. However I’d recommend you do this build to practice him more and then try other talents.
In my opinion Artanis is one of the better bruisers for tanking in QM. With prism and blind you have decent peeling tools. He is quite tanky.
Also it is QM. Artanis has great dmg, some peels, decent wave clear and great at mercing. He can definitely carry a QM if you play good because he has all the tools.
Don’t get me wrong Dehaka can also be very good carry but I wouldn’t say that the game is outright favoured to Dehaka vs Artanis.
If anything, I absolutely hate laning against artanis when playing dehaka because its actually impossible to kill him in a 1v1 once he gets shield surge.
As for tanking, I agree that dehaka is pretty great, even as a solo tank. I’ve tried that a bunch in ranked (only due to teammates not picking a tank after my dehaka pick), and I’ve had pretty good success as long as I take tissue regeneration, and adaptation vs garrosh or any tank that specialize in setting up quick kills.
Anyway, QM is getting change fairly soon so hopefully the problems will be fixed by the,
The Dehaka was actually pretty good, probably the hero that tilted team fights in lane in my favor was the Whitemane vs. Brightwing matchup. I could play incredibly aggressively as since I could keep their focus on me, she could free cast behind me.
As far as talent choices go, it really depends on the map and comp, honestly. I will typically take Seasoned Marksman because if I am the tank, I will be getting stacks faster since I will be in every fight, and someone else will probably be getting camps. Other than that, I almost always take Shield Surge, because it can keep you in an extended fight longer, provided you are really good at managing your trait. Once I get below 30%, as long as I am not blinded or chain-stunned, it is incredibly hard to kill me. The level 7 talent is completely comp dependent. If they are melee heavy, I will take Chrono Surge and do a lot of point blank swaps to proc the Attack Speed buff, as that also brings your trait up faster. If they are ranged heavy, and we do not have a lot of CC on our team, I will go Warp Sickness. If we need a little extra burst, and they are particularly squishy, I like Follow Through. If they have a ton of blinds, Solarite Reaper is a solid choice.
Level 10 is always team dependent. If they have any sort of AA dependent hero, I go Suppression Pulse. That has saved me numerous times. If I am tanking, I use Purifier Beam as a zoning tool more than to try and get kills, because if I can keep their Ana/Stukov/Jaina out of the fight for 6 seconds, we have a good chance of winning.
At 13, if they are mage heavy, Phase Bulwark is my go to. If they have blinds, Templar’s Zeal. If I went Chrono Surge against a melee comp, Graviton Vortex synergizes nicely. For 16, Force of Will if I went Templar’s Zeal, or if I feel I could use more shielding as they start to hit their power spikes. If my healer is very good, and I am feeling fiesty, Blades of a Templar is too much fun.
At level 20, I either take the ult upgrade, or if it is a melee heavy comp and they are just sitting on my head, I pick Plasma Burn. That extra little bit of damage can mean the difference between you dying horribly, or getting that clutch kill on their bruiser/tank.
But in a nutshell, look at the comps, and see how you feel about the rest of your team. The way I look at it, if my team’s burst damage is better and/or my healer is stronger than theirs, I will take more offensive talents because you take 0 damage from a dead enemy. If I feel like I have to trust Artanis’ design and my skill on him, I will go for more defensive ones. One thing you must do, as Laparo mentioned earlier, is get to know his trait inside and out. That is what makes Artanis as tanky as he is. You should always have half an eye on it so you can time your Q and W for the most CDR. As part of that, always always always be hitting something. The second you stop swinging, you die. Attack speed boosts help with your trait CDR, so if your friendly Auriel or Abathur takes those talents, make the most of it.
I mean, you answered your own complaint. Just wait til the QM update with the defined/refined roles, that’s all you can do. So keep truckin along until that day comes and hope that it will be fixed with those solutions. If it isn’t fixed with that, then it isn’t match making or the roles that’s the problem; human error can also be a factor, whether it be yourself or your teammates.
This thread makes me more sad at this player base. Artanis is WAY better than dehaka. Dva is only a good main tank depending on the comp she’s up against. She weak vs CC or low damage comps.
Dehaka also cant mount. So he can’t rotate making him butt useless the 1st half of the game as a tank
It can be good in a few other situations, such as on a map with a lot of tight spaces that would keep them clumped up so you can regularly get multiple hits with your Q. If I take Solarite Reaper and Templar’s Zeal, I will take Force of Will at 16 as those three talents synergize really well.
One of the things about Artanis is that he has probably the most flexible talent tree in the game at the moment, with a lot of different talent synergies all over the place. This is both his greatest strength, but it can be a liability when you are learning him as there are just so many options, it can be confusing.
If you aren’t confident in changing your play style too much depending on what sort of situation you are facing, there are three “basic” tanking builds you can use that are generally safe and reliable.
Against multiple blinds:
Reactive Parry*
Shield Battery
Solarite Reaper
Either
Templar’s Zeal
Force of Will
Any
Note* - At level 1, Reactive Parry is sort of a “set it and forget it” talent, and it will do at least a little damage mitigation. However, it is not recommended if the enemy has a high attack speed hero, particularly Tychus. Tracer, Tassadar, Zarya, and similar heroes will make it get minimum value, so in those cases, I would recommend Seasoned Marksman. If you are tanking, you probably aren’t responsible for pushing or camps, so you won’t need Amateur Opponent.
Against AA comps:
Reactive Parry (See previous comment)
Shield Battery
Follow Through
Suppression Pulse
Triple Strike
Blades of a Templar
Ult upgrade
This build encourages trading hard to keep your shields up, and killing them faster than they can kill you. Just wade in and starting beating on someone, and your shields will pretty much take care of themselves. Use Suppression Pulse in the team fights to reduce the damage they can do to you.
Against mage comps:
Seasoned Marksman
Shield Surge
Follow Through
Purifier Beam
Phase Bulwark
Force of Will
Ult upgrade
This is a shield heavy build, but again, the shields pretty much take care of themselves. I recommend Shield Surge here, as most mage comps deal heavy burst damage, and the extra shielding at low health can be a life-saver. Purifier Beam can be used to either finish a kill, or to zone out their mage or healer to give your team a numbers advantage.
I don’t know man, but if I am playing with a composition with no tank or healer, Artanis seems won’t able to “tank” longer than Dehaka and DVA since they can either heal or has a double HP.
I never doubt Artanis’s power as bruiser just I feel it is slightly disadvantage when it comes to “tanking” for the team against Dehaka/DVA.
You have to remember, Artanis’ sustain is based on the uptime on his trait. This means you have to maintain that, and the only way to do that is by attacking. You can’t turn your back, you can’t walk away, once you go in, you have to stay in it to win it. No matter how low your health dips, you have to keep fighting. This can make you deceptively tanky, as every time they think they have you, your shield procs again.
I may see if I can find a replay showing this and if I can get a clip for you demonstrating how you need to be extra aggressive when tanking on him.
OK, here are a few clips that show some things to keep in mind when trying to avoid getting stomped as Artanis against other tanks or bruisers.
https://streamable.com/411op
This first one shows how to be patient when engaging. Most of this clip is fairly boring to watch, as it is mostly both teams posturing, waiting to engage. The point is that you shouldn’t just dive in with a godswap, just because you can. That will likely get you blown up, especially since they had a Butcher and Varian. Instead, I waited until I caught Butcher out trying to flank before starting the fireworks. After he died, I harassed Zul’jin, as he was the next most threatening hero, and I wanted to make sure he didn’t get at our Alex or Tass. And yes, that is CaiusCain on his Alarak.
(Oh, and pretend you didn’t see me walk straight into a boss stun. Yeah, that never happened. >.<)
https://streamable.com/rux8n
This clip isn’t so much tanking, as an example of disengaging with him. As most people know, he doesn’t really have any escapes, so leaving before it is a crisis is important. If it had just been the Varian, I would have been perfectly happy just standing in the choke point and trading with him all day. Once the Raynor showed up, it was time to leave. The reverse swap was used to give that Varian something to think about other than hitting me, and you can see just how beefy Artanis’ shield can be with the level 4 Shield Surge talent.
https://streamable.com/e73yv
This last clip is Laparo demonstrating the proper way to duel with Artanis against a Dehaka and a Hanzo. Note how he never stops hitting something to keep the shields up. He probably would have killed the Hanzo as well, but the core died before the Shimada did.
A big “Thanks!” to SamiSha for clipping the videos. You rock.
![:slight_smile:](https://d3rakab8gpdsa3.cloudfront.net/en/heroes/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")