There are 2 situations in the QM where I am not really sure which talent build to go for as Artanis.
Against Team A: 2 High HP tank, 1 Lili, 2 ranged mages.
So, in that kind of situation, should I build a Titan Killer with 3 Hits talent vs 2 Tanks, or Blade Dash With Templar Zeal due to the Lili’s Blind or Shield Bulwark because of 2 mages?
Another situation is my QM team doesn’t have a healer but all of us got at least 1 Tank or Bruiser. So in that situation, is building a Blade Dash + Templar Zeal + Force of Will just for a sustainability a “correct path” as there is no healer for both teams?
That’s too little information to answer accurately. Build choices for Artanis depend on the map, your team comp, and which mages you are dealing with. So for example, with the first Team A, are you going to be the designated solo laner/camp taker/boss racer? If so, even with the Li Li blinds, you may want to take Follow Through/Triple Strike/Blades of a Templar. Are you going to be in the front line most of the time as a full bruiser with a high output healer behind you? Chrono Surge/Triple Strike/Titan Killer can work, just time your W around the blinds. If one of their tanks is Johanna with the Li Li, then going a Q build would make more sense.
In the second case, again it will depend on comps. I often go with a high attack speed build without a healer, and they do not have blinds, because that also provides decent sustainability if I can keep hitting things.
But honestly, in QM, particularly at lower MMRs, you pick almost any build on Artanis and do just fine. In addition, you can mix and match talents depending on how the game is going, you do not always have to pair Templar’s Zeal with Force of Will, for example. If I am against a team with a lot of ability damage, I will often run Phase Bulwark and Force of Will.
Rather than getting in the mindset of “I must pick these talents”, start evaluating all elements of a match and build based on those circumstances. One of the things that makes Artanis my favorite hero is that he can be flexible, depending on what he is facing.
Typical answers from you. If you are incapable or not good in answer a question without the information you want or seek, you should refrain yourself from posting it. It is not helping for me at all. Stop giving me stuff like “boss racers/camp takers” talk when I am asking the right choice against “that composition”.
I am seeking for “concrete answer”, not “vague answers”. If I can figure it out myself, I wouldn’t make this thread in the first place. Thank you.
Because there is no one choice against that vague a composition. Artanis’ talent choices are very map dependent, and when you say “2 ranged mages” it depends on whether you are talking about sustain damage mages or burst mages. For example, Shield Battery/Templar’s Zeal/Force of Will is good against a mage like Gul’dan, where Shield Surge/Phase Bulwark/Force of Will would be better against Li Ming.
With a hero like Artanis, you have to be flexible in your build choices and actually think about what the talents do, and what exactly they counter. Not all Double warrior/Double mages are the same, so his talents choices shouldn’t be, either. In addition, ignoring his map specific options in favor of focusing solely on his team fighting is missing out on a great deal of his strengths, and can even cost the match if he isn’t used properly.
Here I go in-depth about Artanis level 20’s for you. I also explain to you how Artanis power budget works which is why Artanis level 20’s are a bit weaker than other heroes while having some of the most powerful level 13 tiers in the game.
Here I try to help you out by explaining to you how to deal with certain solo laners with Artanis alongside example builds to ease you into it.
In this thread I explain to you how Zealot Charge should be used. It even contains some useful information regarding Artanis durability after a certain non Artanis player chimes in, but unlike him I actually have some experience to back it up with an example video provided by @Hoku and @SamiSha at 100-125 ping gameplay.
Clips located in the “Artanis vs Dehaka” thread.
Also do note that Hoku went even more in-depth about talent choices and explanations of how you can go about your day as Artanis.
If you want assistance in learning something you need to be receptive to said information given by others interested in helping others. This isn’t middleschool where teachers will run after you to make sure you’ve studied for the test. It’s merely other helpful players trying to help fellow players with their own favorites. You either take it or leave it. Note that in each of the threads you ignore the advice to then create more-of-the-same-threads. Maybe you wanna look into that.
Laparo, both of you are friends, so it doesn’t surprise me a bit that you watch each other back here.
If you think there is no “choice” in answering my “broad” question, then keep it to yourself and I will appreciate you for that. I am not interested with your little game like “depends lol”.
I am asking for “general” answer. There is no way I can give you the exact details or information for the QM games. In QM, everyone is on his own, unless you are premade, so of course I would like a “general” answer like “taking Titan Killer is better against that composition because…2 tanks are more dangerous to deal with or something like that”.
There is no general answer. I know you don’t like that fact, but it is true. It will absolutely depend on the tanks in question, as Titan Killer gets less value against Varian or Anub’arak than it would against Diablo or Stitches. If the mages are more dangerous to your health, build to counter them. If the tanks will always be your primary target, build to leverage that. If your team is dependent on you to kill non-hero targets in the shortest amount of time to win the game, screw the mages and tanks and build for that.
I don’t know why you are so reluctant to see his flexibility as an asset.
Edit: Oh, and just because Laparo and I are friends, doesn’t mean we do not have our disagreements. Trust me, there are a few things we definitely do not see eye to eye on! But how to build Artanis in QM isn’t one of those.
I know plenty of people with opinions I simply don’t agree with and I wouldn’t bother with because each to their own. As Hoku has already explained we’ve plenty of things surrounding the game in particular we discuss with different viewpoints.
However in this subject I happen to side with Hoku and so far you have not given a single reason to accept or reject what we’re saying. You’re ignoring advice you’re requesting and opening new threads because you do not like the answers. I’m pretty sure this would qualify as spamming threads actually.
Also why can’t you give exact details? Why do you create make-belief scenarios that you yourself can’t even describe? You’ve been asked to provide specific heroes inside your “XYZ” example of a comp but refuse to give such names.
What “general” answer do you seek? Artanis strengths? Weaknesses? How to play him? You’ve been given so much yet you’re dodging all of it.
Furthermore you’ve had it laid out multiple times in what situations some talents are more powerful. Full AA build is generally safe into zero blinds. Multiple blinds go Q build. If they have a lot of burst go Surge+Phase Bulwark. If they have a lot of DoTs go Shield Battery. If there’s a PvE objective or a lot of bosses (Alterac, BoE, Cursed Hollow) go AO. If they are immobile use Purifier Beam or if they deal heavy AA damage go Suppression Pulse.
There are no general answers nor should be if we’re talking about builds.
You always need to adapt to the exact situations and your “example comp” can still differ a lot based on the specific Heroes, that’s what Hoku tried to explain to you but you rather act like a jerk to someone who tries to help you.
Got it. My fault for seeking help in this forum, I guess. If you guys can’t give the “concrete answer”, please refrain from posting then. No answer is better than “an answer that sound like an answer but in reality, it is just useless answer”.
I am not asking you guys for a help on the upcoming death match where I need a present specific situation and specific solutions to win the death match. I just want a “general or thumb rule” answer where most of the time, it is “safer” to go with even it is not optimal.
If you think I am spamming, then use the report function and let the moderator of this forum judge on it. Simple.
Reread my first post. My questions lie on it. Don’t answer if you can’t because “it lacks of information that you desired”.
Help? That guy just dissed me at other thread for assuming I have terrible win rate as Artanis. I guess when you have 100% win rate as Artanis, it gives you the authority to “assumed” others for having low win rate because other suggesting something that he doesn’t like.
You’re not seeking for help. You just want to find a cookiecutter build. But that doesn’t exist.
What you’re searching is not a thing and the fact that you don’t see it and can’t accept it gives the impression that you are far from being a skilled player (not an attack, an observation).
Yes, it exists if you guys can put your elitist view aside.
There is always a general of thumb of this game like " always fight for objective", “don’t engage when you are under level or outnumbered” and etc but with those can be done if the situation or opportunity arises if you are good, but for casual, that advice is extremely helpful. Same goes for the cookie cutter build, it may not great in a specific situation or role but it is good enough to keep the players “relevant” thru the whole game.
I gave you three “cookie cutter” builds months ago in this thread.
However, you were asking for a specific build, in a situation where there isn’t a specific build. In the case you posted in the OP, you could probably pick of the three builds I gave you and do just fine, provided you play him correctly.
So playing with Artanis against the A team (que music) you have two options.
One option is to go a tank busting build. Titan Killer and Tripple strike as your go to talent. You can add “follow throught” for a more bursty hit. Of course in this stratgey you recognize the LiLi threat in her blinds. Keeping an eye on LiLi’s winds so your AA value will not be wasted. When blinded, kite the best you can or even use blade dash as a short evasion during the blind. Which is pretty short. You want to chunk the tanks as quick as possible before the blinds take effect, and when they do- immediately back off.
Second option
You can go Blades of a templar, tripple strike, and warp weakness to dive straight into the enemies healer. Risky, and requires good team coordination on when your team looks like they want to engage the enemies. Just make sure to arm yourself with a few armor talents like reactive shields and shield surge to survive longer to get the job done. This strategy is more of an opportunist in dealing with the main threat- LiLi. Just like before, keep an eye out for blinds, and should strike when she uses the ability. You might need to rely on your team to save you if you dive deep, and would be better if you are able to flank with plenty of escape roots. But this strat puts all your focus on LiLi. Almost a gamble in trying to take her down while waiting for the right moment to strike.
LiLi is the main threat just like any other hero with blinds. It’s a matter of racing to do the damage before and after the initial blind takes effect.
Maybe I’ll answer the other one later, unlikely since I just clocked in.
I literally cannot make it any simpler for you at this point.
I’ve not “dissed” (lol I’ve not heard this since I was 13) you at all. I’ve been incredibly patient trying to help you with the issues you’re describing in not one, not two, but three threads prior to YOU starting the bickering towards us Artanis players.
This post is so unbelievably rude to someone who has been trying to help you for over 2 months and you’re ignoring it all.
Read the talent setup I gave you and go with it.
If you believe it’s “elitist” to help other players to play optimally then why on earth are you requesting assistance to improve your play? You could just go on your merry way and play any talents into anything and just have fun, right?
I’m gonna laugh my way to the bank when you find out that you’ll find exactly what we’ve been saying in whatever guide you locate on heroesfire or Icy Veins because we happen to be invested Artanis players that knows this for years now.
Well, you were originally asking for builds for two specific scenarios, rather than asking for generic game play. If you want a decent beginner’s guide, NotParadox just published one.