Currently she is a siege tank. She could become a “Tank”, changing her playstyle to close combat, little damage. So a playstyle that is nothing like what her current fans would enjoy.
One of the issues with it is that it basically has to be on the same talent tier as Graduating Range, and I felt that having up to 18 range before level 10 would be utterly insane.
So instead, I moved them both to level 13 and buffed Hover Siege to compensate (from 40% of normal movement speed to 60%).
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Off topic but is there even any reason to pick graduating range over hover siege mode?
You mean a rework.
One that makes her not focus on siege hopefully.
Depends on the enemy comp. ZJ/Raynor/Valla against hover is either death or booster retreat, nearly regardless of your allies.
Yes. It prevents you from needing to move as much. The extra range GR grants is great at holding off enemies.
In fact, I never found HSM to be worth picking pre-rework, and even now it’s not that great. More often than not, if you need to move to reposition or avoid damage, it’s better just to unsiege and move that way. It’s only the really short and incremental distances that HSM is actually useful for moving, and I found that proper positioning can make that a non-issue anyway.
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I think she should definitely still be focused on Siege (she is a Siege Tank, after all), but certainly not nearly to the degree she is now. She basically has to be in Siege Mode to do anything useful, no matter what build you use, and I don’t like that.
Well that’s kind of what I mean.
She can’t be too strong with that kind of range, so she ends up being rarely used out of siege mode.
I’m thinking like Sylvanas trait, which is still there and still powerful, but instead of something you use all the time it is now on a cooldown.
So if Siege Mode was on a cooldown like that and only lasted a set duration tank mode could be made better, and siege mode could be made better.
I think it should feel a bit like Dragonqueen or Molten Core, or even Tychus Odin, but the cooldown shouldn’t be quite that long because Siege still is a core part of the tank’s identity.
Maybe something like a 45 second cooldown and 12 second duration?
With a cooldown like that Tank mode could have more health and single target damage and better base abilities.
Siege Mode could even have a better hover at base, maybe a shove like Cho’Gall. It could have a form of graduating range that grows quickly while not shooting, and reverts when the shot is taken. It could have higher damage, or bigger spalsh, or even stronger versions of its abilities than it does now. I don’t know, whatever makes it strong enough to warrant the cooldown, but not impossible to deal with.
In Starcraft 2 siege tanks are pretty much static defence. You can move them, but doing so is more like relocating Spine Crawlers than a normal unit. But there are more ways to build counters or attack from a different angle, or with different timing attacks where areas are undefended from certain threats. You can’t really do any of that here, since the structures already start out on the map, and there are only so many viable attack paths (no air units really)
So I don’t think you can have a siege tank that sits in siege mode most of the time, and feel fun to either side of the game.
I feel like if you give siege mode a duration you are turning it in to a mostly pve thing. Enemy comps would know once hammer sets up they just have to rush her and force her to back off and waste her Cooldown and if the enemy team is being pushed back by your team then there is no reason to siege at them anyways.
One thought for a rework could be to give her a entirely different set of skills in siege. She gets a cloud cover for 3 seconds of blind and things like that. Make it so she has contributions beyond just damage.
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That sounds horrible, I personally wouldn’t want her to have a set duration of siege mode, being in siege is her identity. It’s where most of her power budget lies so it’s okay if tank mode is weaker.
You’d turn it into a powerful zone control thing transformation, kind of like Molten Core/Dragon Queen/Odin.
You can’t just back off if she’s pushing… which is how it is now, except without a set duration it’s pretty much just…well you’re screwed if you don’t have a couple heroes to counter her.
It shouldn’t be so much of it.
And I strongly, very, very, strongly disagree.
If she can’t set up in a good position with a powerful front line to protect her, she’s pretty useless.
If the battle moves very much, she’s pretty useless.
If she can set up and the battle isn’t made to move, she’s pretty much unapproachable.
That’s not good for the game.
Yes but your solution would just make her a tank that can have extra range once every minute which doesn’t exactly feel siege tank ish. I know I probably sound like some reworked hero mains who complained about losing the hero’s uniqueness, but making hammer to be a siege tank hero that is good when not in siege mode would just be hilariously horrendous.
Back when she had higher DPS in Tank Mode, she was ONLY played in tank mode - The joke was that Hammer made a better Raynor then Raynor did.
Hammer is a Siege Tank. Even in Starcraft, the amount of times that you want to fight with your Siege Tanks not sieged up are extremely rare - Generally only against “Siege Breakers” such as Disruptors, Ravens, ect that will kill a immobile Siege Tank but a mobile siege tank can survive it (And in HotS, heroes who can reach and nuke Hammer are Hammer counters, and help to prevent Hammer from just sieging up and winning).
Siege Tanks are also decently durable for their overall cost - They have moderate armor, decent health, and in terms of tankiness, are probably the third tankiest Terran unit, behind the Thor and Battlecruiser.
So, no, currently, Hammer perfectly reflects the Starcraft Siege Tank.
I do agree that in a coordinated group, Hammer is not fun to play against - You can’t approach her, you can’t reach her, and essentially you and your team will find it extremely hard to engage. But ask yourself - When was the last time you ran up against a Hammer comp? I haven’t been up against a Hammer comp since sometime last year myself (And honestly, Hammer is non-threatening in any group that isn’t based around the Hammer).
I disagree strongly with it being boring to play as - Having been the Hammer in a Hammer comp multiple times, I feel that it is extremely demanding and stressful - Far more then being a tank or healer in an ordinary comp. Because the entire game revolves solely around your preformance, and there’s a lot more to Hammer play then just “Right Click and AFK”.
With that said, I would much, much rather play against a Hammer comp then a Juice Pirates comp - Juice Pirates is just !@#$ing rage inducing. If you and your entire team doesn’t immediately catch on to the Juice Pirates strat, you may as well AFK in core because you’ve essentially lost the game, despite the fact that you’ve wiped their entire team 3-4 times
TL:DR - Changing Hammer so that Tank mode is stronger then Siege mode would turn her into “Just another generic ranged AA hero”, in a game that already has 16 ranged AA heroes, or close to 20% of the entire cast (If you take into account heroes that have an even split between AA damage and Ability damage that number increases to over 20).
And considering that out of ALL those AA heroes, only 3-4 see regular use, with almost all the rest being “off-meta” picks…
We don’t need another !@#$ing generic AA hero in this game.
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Juice Pirate? What is that?
It’s the strat where you take Tyrael (Mandatory) and generally Lt. Morales, and basically have your entire team go Fort->Keep->Core, ignoring everything else. It results in roughly 10 minute games either way, and if your side doesn’t immediately respond to the first rush by then doing EXACTLY what the Juice Pirates strat is (Fort->Keep->Core), you lose the game.
Is this the medivac into sanctification cheese??
Hammer never had higher DPS in Tank Mode than in Siege Mode. Her basic attack damage and speed in Tank Mode was the same as in Siege Mode.
Her trait, Artillery, made her deal 30% bonus damage to enemies more than 4 range away but that worked in both Modes and provided more value in Siege Mode than Tank Mode anyway.
And just about any AA focused hero made a better Raynor than pre-rework Raynor did.
I think she should have higher DPS in Tank Mode like Siege Tanks do in SC2 as it is. Then we could increase her Siege Mode splash area and damage to give each mode a more distinct role (just like in SC2) – Tank Mode for 1v1s, Siege Mode for teamfights and pushing lanes.
Which is why we see them being used as front line all the time, right?
No. Siege Tanks are quite fragile, considering their size and cost (both resource and supply). They only have 175 health and 1 base armor. Thors have more than double their health yet cost less than double the resources, and even they aren’t dedicated frontline units like Hellbats, Marauders, and BCs.
A handful of Marines that get close enough can chew through a Siege Tank in a matter of seconds.
There’s a reason Siege Tanks are deployed in the back line rather than at the front, and it’s because they die pretty easily if you can reach them.
This is just ridiculous.
She’s not even that close, let alone a “perfect,” reflection of a Siege Tank.
Her durability, mobility, and self-peel gives her far more self-sufficiency than a normal Siege Tank, and while self-sufficiency is generally a good thing in a MOBA, it completely breaks away from the fantasy of a real Siege Tank.
If a Siege Tank gets caught out, it’s as good as gone.
If Hammer gets caught out, she’s, well, also as good as gone, except this time I mean she just pressed E, W, and Z and ran away after taking almost no damage.
And that’s not even considering her crappy range and splash damage compared to real Siege Tanks.
“Perfectly reflects the Starcraft Siege Tank,” my 
.
Making Tank Mode not useless is definitely a common position, but I don’t see anyone suggesting she should be stronger in Tank Mode than Siege Mode.
Yes.
Where is the rest of your text? lmao I thought the minimal was supposed to be 20 characters.
You can hide text between angle brackets. “<f>” -> “”
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