Genji needs a buff

General Discussion
41

I’m not disregarding them. I’m saying that trying to justify removing an effect entirely because some people are better at using it or avoiding it than others is ridiculous. If you actually try to follow that principle, you would quickly reduce the game to ARAM - All Raynor And Malfurion.

And you don’t get to selectively apply a principle in one situation but not another just because it’s expedient to do so. If Genji shouldn’t be allowed to get resets, then Stukov shouldn’t be able to slow and/or root people in his own AoE silence, Imperius shouldn’t be able to chain stun 3+ enemy heroes, and Deathwing shouldn’t be able to kill you if you stand still.
All three of those things are much more common than Genji getting 5 resets. So how do you feel about those things?

  1. You mean Genji getting one reset? Sure. But Genji getting all 5? Lol, no. I’ve seen dozens of times (as in multiplier) more multi-hit Lightning Furies than I have more than just 2 resets in a row, and that’s counting all those WTF and Moments videos I watch.
  2. Genji’s resets aren’t preventing him from being buffed. People’s inability to pay attention and make basic judgement calls about how aggressively to play against Genji are preventing Genji from being buffed.
  3. Genji isn’t even close to a problem right now, which is what (or rather, when) matters. He’s literally the worst hero in the game right now, clocking in at an abysmal 41.5% winrate, over 1.5% lower than the next lowest hero, Medivh.

Full team AoE GeSP with full Trait+AA build. I wanted to be safe and cover all bases just to make sure we were scrubbing any and all potential for “WOW!” moments from this game for you.

And URD. And SL. And in HL and TL before SL. And even in ARAM.
Oh wait, that’s just every game mode except vsAI.

It is neither common, nor is it nearly as reliant on the Genji player themselves as you are trying to make it out to be.

Then you applaud their teamwork, try to figure out how you could make sure you’re a couple more steps ahead of them, and move on.

Unless you want to go back to that All Raynor And Malfurion thing again, where we dumb this game down to the level your average CoD player can make Diamond.

Oh, I’m not saying I think you want KT nerfed. I’m saying your reasoning, if applied to heroes like KT, would demand they be nerfed.

If you only apply your reasoning to one hero but hand-wave away all the others when they come up, like you’re doing in this thread, then you’re committing a Special Pleading fallacy, which is part of my point in bringing them up again and again. Even if we assume you have a good reason Genji needs this treatment, you certainly don’t have a good reason that only Genji gets this special treatment.

1 Like
42

We’re talking perfect situations to make a point.

Normally, something like this would basically be impossible.

Pierce causes LF to split every time it passes through a hero, meaning it splits 5 times if the center bolt hits 5 heroes.
On her own, Cassia can hit 3 stationary heroes with the same LF cast 3 times. They have to have small hitboxes, be in a triangle formation, and be literally rubbing hitboxes for this to work. You cannot hit more than this when unit collision hitboxes are involved.

However, there are times when unit collision hitboxes are temporarily disregarded. Displacements are one such example. When you are displaced, your unit collision hitbox is ignored, allowing you to pass through other units. You can see this kind of thing most clearly with Maiev’s Warden’s Cage, where if all heroes walk to the edges of the circle at the same time, they’ll be bounced back and overlap for the briefest of moments in the very center before their hitboxes shunt them back apart.

That exact moment is when you hit them with LF. Even while unit collision is down, you can still hit enemies with AoEs and skillshots, so while they’re all occupying the same space you land a single LF on them and it lights them all up. It splits 5 times from hitting every hero, and each hero is hit by the splits from the 4 other heroes, meaning every hero is hit 5 times.

I’ve pulled this off partially, against 3 people once, so the concept works, even if the execution is one-in-a-billion.

43

Removing inconsistent part of the hero and replacing it with buffs to other consistent abilities/parts of kit is not a nerf. Its actually completely opposite.

Chromie indicator, Stukovs increased AoE silence range, Azmodan warning delay. Examples of incosistent parts of heroes kits that caused problems at various MMRs and got changed.
And since I expect the same to happen to KT… only.

44

It is when that reset is the only thing that makes Genji’s E not a suicide button half the time.

If you get a kill, you get the reset. If you don’t, you probably die.
Take away that reset, and the result is that Genji gets that “you probably die” outcome 100% of the time, whether he successfully gets the kill or not. It’s really the only thing that makes Swift Strike worth using offensively.

Also, I’m pretty sure KT’s Living Bomb counts as fairly “inconsistent.”

2 Likes
45

Yes and I think it should be changed for the same reason. LB build sucks but its unbuffable because of the outrage it will cause here.

46

Cassia Q - 175
Ming Calamity - 300

Obviously true, but I would argue.
Cassia Q - 210(blind bonus)
Ming E - 1500(possible resets)

Ming is balanced around rng?

Swift strike reset’s power lies mostly within its mobility and less so it’s damage, your main kill damage is still going to be q unless you wait for your team to carry you only for you to e them.
In this case, if you use genji for escape prevention is because of his range, not damage, if you just want to snowball the fight, liming is better for that.

Reset may be limiting genji’s power but if you were to remove it, he loses the ability to dive further than anyone and escape and becomes just another diver like zera or tracer even if he was buffed elsewhere. Maybe removing resets will make genji appear less powerful to watchers and they feel less frustrating idk = more possible genji buff?

1 Like
47

The logic here goes like this: if genji is buffed then tracer players can pick genji as an alternative tracer build. Makes perfect sense.

2 Likes
48

My brain.

2 Likes
49

You mean resets? I’ll laugh my a** off if you think she doesnt.

Keep reading.

50

Seriously. All these ranged players are making it super obvious they just want to safely sit in the back line. Any hero who makes them uncomfortable must be executed with 12/10 skill otherwise you’re just playing him wrong.

“Btw did I mention I’m a Li Ming/Kael’thas main?”

1 Like
51

Its no surprise really when a game cattered to casuals gets watered down to casuals to the point heroes like Lili, Raynor, Fenix takes 0 considerable effort to do a lot by just existing, while Genji requires a massive set up for him to even snowball hard the kills.

This is basically the Brigitte effect upside down for HotS.

4 Likes
52

I suspect this is the real reason behind Wombat wanting this removed, and he’s just using Genji’s “unbuffability” as justification for that.

53

I feel like the common consensus is that Ming isn’t a problem rn, you haven’t explained how resets are random and how that’s a problem even if they were.

Inconsistent? It’s very consistent when there’s another target besides the reset target.

Are skill shots inconsistent? Let’s make all skills point and click, that will be more consistent.

1 Like
54

was he nerfed in the last two months? i remember playing him 2 months ago and stomping almost everyone due to his ability to say f you to frontlines