You should see Mercy in OW, she was nerfed 12 times in a row
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Genji’s baseline required skill level is higher than most other heroes. This is intentional by design. Naturally - characters like Alarak, TLV, Genji, tend to have lower winrates as a simple result of players of an unbefitting skill level playing them.
So, Genji is not underpowered. His damage is great if you know how to land 3 shurikens on the same hero or time your swift strike/deflect just right. All of those things can be quite difficult - but in the right hands, Genji is a menace to the backline and masterful at keeping distance to peelers.
That was already suggested by someone and i actually did went over what it would actually entails lol
On one hand, Genji is pretty trash right now.
On the other hand…Genji release flashbacks
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Really, it isn’t that Genji Himself requires too much skill. Sweetspot E on someone, dump point blank shurikens. Use X-strike, jump and reset E to get out. He’s hardly that mechanically intensive.
It’s that Genji works best in co-ordinated teams. He’s not a solo ganker, he’s mostly there to finish off people who were already weakened by his team.
But if your team are too stupid to ever get anyone low since they’re introverts who don’t ever group up, it can get rather frustrating, since Genji has trouble bursting down enemies on his own.
And there’s way too many Genji players who don’t actually know this and keep Illidaning into things.
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Genji can stay at the bottom for all I care. He is the most cancerous hero in the game.
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That actually wasn’t why they kept nerfing him so much. They actually said that he was still too frustrating to deal with, which is not the same thing as being OP.
And they’ve confirmed multiple times, explicitly and otherwise, that stat-tracking websites are generally accurate within 1-2% compared to their own. Genji has had a ~42% winrate for months, well outside the margin of error for a “balanced” hero.
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True, his public win rate is very bad, but even sub 45% heroes like Hanzo have gotten nerfs because they are oppressive at the highest level of play.
Medivh also sits at a very sad 42% at the moment but surely nobody would want him buffed.
High skillcap heroes will always have such win rates in casual matches. I dare to imply Medivh is even a liability outside premade teams most of the time.
That isn’t why. They get nerfed because people keep complaining about them because they take skill to play against.
Hanzo actually does worse the higher you go in rank because of this. His winrate overall is generally ~5% below average, but his winrate in Masters is consistently ~7% or further below average. He’s a more extreme version of KT, where people in lower ranks really struggle against him while people in higher ranks almost laugh at him.
He’s just annoying at all levels of play, whether he’s actually any good or not.
Same reason the stealth heroes keep getting suppressed whenever they actually become viable. Same thing for Genji. Whenever they’re balanced, people who don’t understand how to play against them throw fits.
Medivh’s been bouncing up and down the charts for months, despite not getting any changes. Just about 2 months ago he was at a 46% winrate, but now he’s down at 43%. He’s on odd case, and his unstable winrate makes it hard to judge whether or how much of a buff he needs.
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Well, if nerfs happened based on people whining, Kael’thas would have gotten 10 nerfs by now.
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Yeah, people did whine about “unfun” Genji a lot. Dont think it was main problem tho.
Are/were there heroes that can/could counter Genji? Sure. Was Genji possible to counter? Sure, if you picked the same heroes over and over again…
The worst hero diversity this game ever had happened during Genjis prime (although he is not the only one to blame imo, just to be clear).
Even tho I really want to remove resets, I could stop at locking them behind talent. Or limit it to 1 per cd.
Similar problem when it comes to his bipolar performence.
If you ask someone what Cassias Q and Genji E damage are:
Cassia Q - 175
Genji E - 190
Obviously true, but I would argue.
Cassia Q - 210 (blind bonus)
Genji E - up to 950 (possible resets)
Since heroes should be balanced around being played optimally… No problem in Cassias case, its consistent, but Genji? You basically balance whole hero around borderline RNG, something that may as well not happen whole game.
Remove this garbage and you can do whatever you want with him.
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If you looked through KT’s patchnotes, you’d know that he’s gotten more than that over the course of this game’s history.
Combine those with the fact that’s he’s statistically balanced as well as the pushback from people who know he is not actually broken, the devs are probably thinking, “Yeah, that’s enough.”
Just be glad we aren’t still living in the era of infinite Living Bomb spread.
This is absurd. That’s not “optimal,” that’s “perfect.”
Oh, and if you’re gonna factor in additional targets for Genji, you also have to do the same for Cassia, meaning that Lightning Fury now deals 1050 damage total in a perfect situation. And before you go trying to factor in talents, just remember that Pierce alone allows LF to split up to five times rather than just once, hitting every hero 5 times for a grand total of 5250 base damage in a completely perfect scenario.
This is why we don’t (and shouldn’t) balance around “optimal” play. Because then we’re having to account for absolutely absurd occasions that happen once every dozen or so blue moons and have less than a negligible effect on how balanced the hero actually is.
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For Cassia its totally normal. Best performing Cassia ever happened when LiLi received buffs. This duo wrecked HL for few weeks. Johanna is also popular sidekick of Cassia as well.
Genji? Still possible, still happens, but yes, its still absurd, what was my point.
Right, we should balance around low MMR QM/ARAM mains.
Just to be clear, the point was to enable balancing around everyone.
Or… you could simply prevent those absurd occasions from happening.
So it’s fine if Cassia pumps out such absolutely ludicrous amounts of damage in an “optimal” situation, but not fine if Genji does even a fraction of that in his own “optimal” situation?
Is there any logical reason for this discrepancy?
Your words, not mine.
I’m just saying we shouldn’t balance around the AlphaStar level bots you would need to pull these stunts off consistently enough to actually have any tangible impact on a hero’s winrates.
I’m fairly confident most players don’t have perfect awareness and millisecond reaction times.
On another note, AlphaStorm would be a frickin’ sweet name for a HotS AlphaBot.
Alright, so while we’re at that let’s write off Living Bomb’s ability to spread, Guillotine’s damage scaling, Umbral Bind’s everything, Weighted Pustule’s slow and/or Lurking Arm’s silence, etc, etc, and so forth because there’s the potential that one of those abilities can have absolutely ludicrous amounts of impact in “optimal” situations?
Hmm, why don’t we also cut Molten Flame’s damage by 90%? No more roasting whole teams of potatoes who don’t understand the concept of “don’t stand in the fire.”
You know what, let’s just make everyone pre-rework Raynor again! Will that be basic enough for you, when absurd things can’t happen at all anymore?
Genji getting all 5 resets is one of the least impressive things that can happen as far as absurdly rare occurrences go. That relies on his team setting him up perfectly for something like that to happen.
If you want to complain about or remove “absurd” things, there’s a long list you have to go through before you get to Genji’s resets.
Alternatively, you could learn how to avoid those things in general, such as not hanging around while super low on health when you know Genji is around, just like you shouldn’t try to hump your teammates when they or you have a Living Bomb stuck to their/your face.
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how about we dont buff the most cancerous hero in the game please and thank you
So whats the opposite of this?
Not saying you got no right to, but its pretty ignorant of you to disregard high MMR where people capable of playing the game optimally exist, just because it doesnt affect you.
“Absolutely ludicrous”
“Fraction”
lol ok.
Yes there is, in case it wasnt obvious before for some reason.
- Its (far) more consistent.
- Cassia doesnt have so much power budget locked behind potential resets, what also prevents real buffs from happening.
- Erm, Cassia is not really a problem. Never been except few weeks with LiLi around.
Can Raynor do anything remotely absurd? What?
In your QM games.
I like how you always stick to the argument “what you can do” but never use “what enemies prevent you from doing”. Back to 2nd paragraph.
I have a feeling that after all these months you are still projecting thinking I want KT nerfed 
Raise of hand if anyone has seen hightlight clip of a cassia + zarya wombo bomb with that power?
Bueler? Bueler?
…pretty sure Pierce only splits if hit by the main; if they were hit by the main, they weren’t hit by the split. So the cap is still the 5 hits & not 25.
That tends to be seen why teams take ming or jaina for the wombo & not cassia. also can be why pierce is her least popular & least successful lvl 16 pick, it’s more of a style change than a damage increase.
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Bias.
It is ok if we get braindead characters to considerably crap themselves with high values with very little effort, take notes for the buffs Fenix and Raynor are getting.
But that’s not ok if Genji tries to literally suicide in for the kill.
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Wait, Im biased?
I want Genji buffed but dont think any major buffs are possible if so much of his power is locked behind (unconsistent) resets.
Yes, I agree. What confuses me even more D:
Oops, having my morning brain fart. Haha 
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