Man, this thread got hostile quick. Did I touch a nerve?
Keep trying. You will eventually wade through the fluke matches and land a string of games to push you over the hill. If I, in all of my casual glory, can make it out of Gold and into Diamond/Masters by trying as hard as I can every game, so can anyone.
If you say so.
Nah. I’ve already got TL3, so I’m good. If I wanted points, I’d make a big thread with a lot of images and fun stuff to read. This was made in response to somebody blowing up over a loss streak and trying to convince everyone that there was a developer conspiracy keeping his winrate down.
If that’s how you want to interpret it, sure. From my point of view, the fault lies with the players for not striving to improve themselves on a consistent basis instead of coasting on their existent skill.
Oh cool, I didn’t hear that Blizzard finally released the official HOTS API that let you see real MMR instead of an aggregate guesswork based on voluntary replay uploads.
Nah. High MMR is the result of lots of wins. Of course, high skill typically correlates with lots of wins, but it doesn’t have to - some folks just get lucky. Maybe they got carried, maybe the enemy team threw, maybe they activated beast mode, maybe RNGesus smiled on them and what would normally be a series of blunders put them in the right place at the right time. Wins don’t mean anything more than you won.
50% winrate + Averaged MMR Pool + worse teammate not better opponents + hard to carry easy to throw aspect of hots + the worst player has a bigger impact than the best player + match outcome is mostly determined by the worst player not the best player = FORCED CARRY = FORCED 50%
Be it Intentional or by product of low playerbase, it is what it is. Forced 50%.
I’m sorry but you still don’t understand how this works. A high MMR is not the result of “a lot of wins”. It is the result of having a 50% win rate against someone with high MMR.
A bronze 5 player and a master player will both have 50% win rate. A master player will not win more than a bronze player, but the master player will have master opponents, while the bronze player will have bronze opponents. This is how the match maker is supposed to work. This is how it gives a fair fight. By your logic, a bronze player and a master player would be equal in skill cause they win the same amount of games. They are not.
You seem to think MMR is a byproduct of the match maker. This is exactly the opposite of how things are in reality. MMR decides what the match maker does, not the other way around. The match maker is aimed at giving you a fair fight (ie. you lose as much as you win, simple probabilities). How it does that is completely out of the control of the MMR.
MMR = skill. There is no “actual skill” as far as the match maker is concerned. There is an uncertainty (how sure is the match maker that your MMR is where it should be). This is why blizzard tried implementing performance based MMR in the first place. I suggest you try to document yourself before trying to sound smart. The game itself is a black box as far as those systems are concerned. There are only inputs (the MMR of each player) and outputs (win/loss). Nothing else matters. And the math behind it is sound and there are lots of paper where this is demonstrated. RNG/carry/ all those silly excuses, these do not matter if the inputs are chosen properly. Instead of going up the slope of input(chose inputs with higher MMR) to control the output (i.e to obtain a loss), it goes down (it chooses inputs with lower MMR). This is the actual problem. And players can’t control it.
Hell, engineering, the technology all around is, is based upon these kinds of black box systems. The local nuclear reactor is based on something similar to MMR.
Quite easy.
The system takes in account your hidden behavior score. If your winstreak is too big the system will look for the most reported and the least commended players to fill your team.
The same about roles. The system will look for players at the same rang as yours but which can’t fill missing roles, for example: 4 assasins, 3 supports or 4 tanks. The system knows everything about your best and worst heroes.
I’m not trying to say how it works here. I’m trying to say it is possible.
I agree that the majority has 50% winrate due to skill.
People observe the 50-50 and it could be due to multiple factors.
Imagine the scenario. You have been playing at 2000 MMR, then lost 10 matches and your rating is 1000.
A first layer of matchmaking simply takes 10 people of the same MMR as you (1000). Since your loss streak is simply bad luck or being drunk the other day, you are well above your measured skill and you’ll win, even if you still have bad luck with your teammates. Eventually you can carry them.
A second layer could say, luck happens but skill doesn’t change, so let’s take MMR average from the last 10 matches (1500) and try to get you in a match with this MMR - closer to your real skill. Since your current rating is 1000, the game will try to find people with a higher rating (1625 on average). Thus the MM appears to try and help you. To the 1625 guys, they see a problem but experience a surprisingly easy match - or a toxic puddle, whichever you are at this point.
Turn the logic around for a climb, and “you get challenged”.
Yes they do? If anything the issue is that people don’t report those players enough… Granted, we get multiple “I didn’t deserve my ban, I only said bad things in one game” every day here…
The MMR will never move that much within 10 games. A loss streak or a win streak would have to be of 50+ games in order to move the MMR by any considerable values. This is the same mistale op makes: assuming individual games actually bear any impact to MMR. They don’t.
There is a difference between the automated chat bans and bans for actual trolls which have an actual impact on the game. Blizzard hardly ever bans the real trolls.
the 50% thing is a statistical inevitability of any random system. The MMR is a one-dimensional projection of a multi-dimensional problem. They try to stretch it to 1.5 dimensions by creating a ton of rules for how the MMR is adjusted after each match, but it’s still just one-dimensional. That’s about as close to random as you can get without going zero-dimensional. It separates Master from Bronze by putting a whole bunch of ambiguity in between. Nothing else about it can be said to be anything but random.
Although, it’s also important to remember that the common “stomp fests” that occur do not necessarily mean that one team was vastly more skilled than the other. Perhaps it means that one team was better skilled at exploiting a snowball than the other team was as halting one, but that’s just the nature of snowballs. Perhaps it means that one team drafted better than the other, but that has nothing to do with the ability to play the actual game. Perhaps it means that one team had their power spike with better timing, but that’s just luck - which is, by definition, random.
Forced 50% winrate is your fault. Oh boy that is something else. Alright, let me try to have this in a way that both sides can be happy.
Agree:
1: Sometimes a death can be your own fault, out of position or being away from your team for example
2: Poor communication between teammates, self explanatory
3: Not picking characters with good synergy, it can be hard to find unless you google it but sometimes characters just work better together
4: The definition of insanity, doing the exact same thing and expecting a different result each time. Or doing the same thing and expecting the same thing to happen each time. Just because you manage to dive and kill the healer once does not mean the other team will let it happen again, every dive main ever. And I am speaking from experience
Disagree:
1: Matchmaking is crap at times. Can have the best of the best teammates or the worst of the worst, it’s literally a toss up unless you play with friends/party up with people who were good in the last game
2: Bad luck happens, random BFB hits you
3: Matchmaking a perfect counter to you. For example, you play Varian and random match making gives the enemy Cassia, Li Li and Jahonna. It sucks, trust me
4: Throwers/leavers. It is not your fault when a teammate leaves a game unless you are verbally abusing them, even then the person should just block you.
Edit: Not everything is specifically your fault, like everything other stuff comes into account. Just because you get hit with a BFB from across the map when your mid hearthing does not mean it’s only your fault
Sure, I just wanted the numbers to be easy. It is obviously just an idea, although I wouldn’t be surprised to have similar ideas in place - with benevolent backing arguments.
For example, the best fix for my tilt is an easy match with the shining example of great teammates. Instead of going into behavior analysis, you can simply add bonus-malus to MMR after every win / loss. Combined with my above idea, you literally get carried after several losses. Of course, one or two wins and poof, the malus is gone.
10 wins/losses are equal to 2 ranks, and in League that’s noticeable. Whenever I have a really bad loss streak, I get some matches in the end where people literally walk into my skill shots. Same after winstreaks, I suddenly get outrotated, outplayed, outdrafted or a combination.