I know it is well known issue that ruthless onslaught can be interrupted right before Butcher star running or shortly after impact. It is unfair as not only character that is supposed to be helpless defends itself but also Butcher need to wait another 10/15 seconds to charge while some other melee assassins have more tools to stick with its victims. Imagine Johanna with Iron Skin being possible to CC with stuns (even for brief moment) - I could bet 5$ her winrate would drop to average Medivh level (aka very poor). Therefore here is my suggestion - if Butcher gut stunned in the moment of pre running, ruthless onslaught mana cost should be refunded, and butcher should get 0,25 sec of unstoppable after impact to prevent being pushed away/stunned by stunned enemies such as Uther, Yrel, Lucio, Hammer, Dragon Alexstrasza (examples of characters I was able to pull trick out).
The lack of unstoppable on impact is intentional. It is so that there is easily available counter play to the butcher. If that feature was added to Ruthless Onslaught then other parts of the Butcher’s kit would need to be nerfed, such as the stun duration of Ruthless Onslaught, his auto attack damage from meat stacks, damage from Furnace Blast or the activation time or duration of Lamb to the Slaughter.
Yes, but we are talking about team game where allies can help you. Being caught alone by Butcher should end up for most characters as dead stack of meat. Especially since none of the character mentioned are glass cannons like Li Ming or Tracer (aka Impact, melee, furnace, hamstring combo killing it - unless there is high level difference or Butcher is hell of stacked)
It already does… He dumps Lamb to the Slaughter on them and they die. The 1 second stun time of Ruthless Onslaught combos perfectly with the 1 second activation time of Lamb to the Slaughter resulting in 4 seconds that the enemy, or enemies at level 20, cannot run away or use abilities.
Only the toughest tanks can survive this, which is by design since they are tanks. Again, if you make him able to burst the toughest tanks with that combo, other areas of him would need to be nerfed such as his health down to Murky levels to enable counter play.
Nevermind I read that wrong, I kind of like the change, however, I think it should be either .25 seconds of unstoppable or refund his mana cost. (also isn’t he unstoppable while he’s running, I dont see how he’d get stunned down unless he was crazy overextending)
Mate you miss the point - if butcher got countered on his impact moment by hit of Yrel, Dragon Alex, Lucio etc by being stunned/displaced no amount of skills won’t help you as you got CC the moment you CCed enemy - singular (not talking about team situation now) his whole combo goes to drain. Recently I did it when playing as li ming - butcher charged on me right before he hit I used my force wave - I got stunned he could pushed away - I was stunned for second he was pushed back and cced by 0,75 sec in 0,25 sec even D.va meka won’t get trapped. This is my whole point - Butcher should be briefly unstopable after charge like 0,25 sec so he can’t be easily countered by his target that doesn’t have party support.
Countering the butcher charge like that is likely frame perfect, as such I would not call it reliable and more “lucky”, especially given there is no latency correction. Butcher only becomes stoppable the moment the target is stunned, which logically they cannot counter because they are already stunned. As such I am guessing there is a 1 frame window where by an interrupt cast before impact can apply pushback the same frame that the stun is applied, buying the victim some time. If you can pull this off reliably I say Butcher deserves it as it would be very high skill.
Li Ming is special because Wave of Force has a Impact delay of 0.25 seconds (4 updates). which makes it a lot more easy to time than all the other examples you gave. She can cast it before Butcher impacts to shove him away. This is similar to how Junkrat can also place a trap in advance to activate on Butcher while Junkrat is stunned by the charge.
How? What Can D.Va do to not get trapped?
Not like that is “countering” him. Given that he has options to apply slow, boost movement speed and reduce cooldowns.
Simply because in 0,25 sec it would be hard to aim good + Lamb to slaughtered is made so every character can escape it unless CCd.
Even if it is, it shouldn’t happened. Stunned character is stunned character - no matter of skill or time frame should save you as it can lead to abuse and unfairness. Also if it would be single character case I wouldn’t have mind - but not several, even if you include characters which have it easier to pull off it still shouldn’t happen - if stun isn’t stun than perhaps lets make Muradin hammer stun you after its animation of effect is complete - not instantly, lets do same with Uther … I can tell that fans of those characters would start to rage or cry because of unfairness than why giving such tool against butcher. I would have understand 1 character can doing so, maybe 2 … but not more. If I was able to pull it of with Lucio, Hammer, Auriel, Dragon Alexstrasza, Yrel (displacement ones - not counting stunning ones as I haven’t pull it out yet but I saw people doing that to me or my teammates doing so ocasionally) and since I am just at best diamond 4 player than it means it is broken
Butcher CCs victim for 1 second on impact. As such the combo of Ruthless Onslaught + Lamb to the Slaughter has close to a 100% hit chance unless allies intervene.
Unlike Li Ming who can displace the butcher by casting Wave of Force in advance, I do not think D’Va has any abilities that can do something similar. As such what will happen is Butcher impacts her, casts Lamb to the Slaughter and then when she loses the stun she is as good as instantly chained by Lamb to the Slaughter.
This works very reliably. I use it constantly against AI, who have as good as frame perfect reaction times compared with humans.
Which is mostly the case. Li Ming is just kind of special due to Wave of Force having an impact delay after casting. This is similar to Blaze’s Bunker which he can cast before Butcher impacts him so that it lands on him during the stun. Kael can do the same with Flame Strike, and Jaina with Blizzard. Kel Thuzard can even do the same with Fissue and Frost Nova (so yes he can root and combo the Butcher as soon as the Butcher impacts).
Raynor and Sgt Hammer cannot really pull it off since they would likely need frame perfect execution.
Butcher also stuns the target instantly on impact…
This sounds like poor Butcher play rather than it being a problem. Ruthless Onslaught into Lamb to the Slaughter is a pretty secure combo against all those heroes since at best they would need frame perfect precision to interrupt him.
If you are complaining about using Ruthless Onslaught alone then yes, they will push you away after the 1 second stun ends as that is by design. They will push every DPS melee hero away as that is what their displacement is for. For example they will also push a diving Wolf form Greymane away, or a charging Thrall.
I might be wrong, but I think you overestimate how precise the timing needs to be to stop Butcher.
It happens to me all the time when playing as Butch vs AI. And sure, the AI has literally superhuman reaction speeds and whatnot, but because it’s so common I’ve tried it out and managed to succeed a few times.
I’m playing as Auriel, AI butch charges me, I wait and time my Q so it hits after he reached me but before he stunned me, I walk away unharmed because his RO is now on cooldown. Stuff like that (and I’m playing from Mexico, where anything under 200ms is a “good” ping 
)
How automatic attack that is 100% uncontrollable after you select target and pressed corresponding key (you can only cancel it) is poor skill butcher? It could be bronze 5 or GM#1 and if I timed correctly he would be CC’d regardless of it’s skill cap (difference would be if he wouldn’t be alone)
I agree - it is hard to pull it off 100% of situations, but even if you can pull it 30% situation it still can impact gameplay experience quite a bit.
As I was saying … again … if butcher got CC right after impact butcher won’t be able to cast lamb ult simply because you were CC’d instantly after impact and even after something like lucio boop butcher ult would be mostly ineffective.
Yes he does, it was just parallel to situation when your skills doesn’t work as planned. You are unstoppable, character got stunned, stunned character CC butcher because delays ping etc - there are mechanics like e.g Uther, Alexstrasza, Tychus who benefits for being stunned but really being able to CC enemy when you should technically be unable to do so is what triggers me a lot.
Humans will not be timing it perfectly all the time. Even the AI struggles to.
Yes which is why the rest of the Butcher’s kit has been made more powerful to compensate. That 70% of the time it does work you deal more damage than if it was able to work 100% of the time.
Ping cannot compensate for anything. The game is synchronous so there is no lag correction like there is in FPS games.
Half the skill of playing Butcher is knowing when an enemy cannot be saved. For example if you have Uther on your team you can (should…) rely on him Divine Shielding you during a dive so there is nothing the enemy team can do to stop him. Like wise if you know Lucio just pewed back your tank now is the time to Ruthless Onslaught him as he has no knockback due to cooldown. Butcher is not solo, he does have 4 allies to help cover his weaknesses.
Most likely but still other characters doesn’t have such unintentional flaws.
Rest of butcher kit isn’t powerful:
Brand allowing huge drain but only if butcher lands melee attacks on heroes - blind, root him out, slow him, slow his attack speed, reduce healing effectiveness … most character in game have way to counter it.
Hamstring - huge mana cost for very weak semi spamable slow - technically Mei Slow is better as despite being shorter, dealing lower dmg and not being spamable it’s slow magnitude without talents is higher, it blinds + is cheaper. (If costs would be switched aka 40 mp for snow blind and 25 mp for hamstring I would have agree with you)
Ults - that requires butcher to not be CCed and/or be timed perfectly - aka very easy to counter in team fight and with focus on topic unreliable.
Alternate storm talentes - teleport (weakest of all characters that got teleport - like diablo leaving rune of apocalypse, thrall getting wind fury and so on)
Nexus blades - remains from old times (Artanis version would have been better for butcher + Artanis gets it faster)
Yeah Butcher requires team but his focus should be like: “ohh Auriel with 40% of hp so far from team as they lose and she runs away last, it would be shame if I would charge on her with my unstoppable charge” - gets pushed away. Point is you can’t use argument: “it is team fight game so one skill here or there doesn’t make difference - it will” - Also since it team fight enemy Yrel slams and stuns your Bucher post ruthless assault after using gap of Lucio push tank away. See using argument that skill may be broken negatively and team will still carry you is BS. Lets make Give Them Some Pepper of Raynor sometimes not working, like his rifle jammed - it will be lore like … who would like it? No one! So being CCed by stunned character is equally big hoax.
Butcher has very little else to spend mana on…
Which is why they are some of the strongest ultimates in HotS. A level 20 upgraded Lamb to the Slaughter on a badly placed enemy team is an instant win pretty much. Furnace blast is largely unavoidable damage given that the butcher can unstoppable most of the wind up.
Get allied Uther to cast Divine Shield on Butcher. Now there is no AS slow, no stun, no blind, no displacement, and a lot of dead enemies. I did that to an allied Butcher in ARAM and from nearly losing we ended up winning as they proceeded to unload all their skills on an invulnerable Butcher who team wiped them.
Other supports can do something similar with their own cleanses, which render the target unstoppable for a brief moment. Tanks and bruisers can also create openings for the Butcher, such as by forcing the enemies to waste their cooldowns on them rather than the Butcher.
Again you are using team fight argument. If skill is broken that its normal feature requires to be supported by your team to work it means it needs fix. How about making all cc flawed - lets say Arthas tempest still slow but only if full enemy hitbox is within it … or ranged skill doesn’t effect if they not hit center or close to center of target hitbox … broken isn’t it? Therefore if something is broken positively or negatively it should be fixed without but(t)s.
HotS is a team game… A lot of heroes are reliant on allies. For example Maiev and Greymane need an ally to heal them as they have no ability to heal themselves during combat.
That is broken due to inconsistent mechanics. Butcher does not have that issue as his mechanics are consistent with all other heroes.
How possibility of being CCed by stunned character is not inconsistent? How about this - when Garosh throws you, you land on place which you want not one Garosh targeted … it is same type of thing - enemy stunned you - you can’t do thing on your own, you stunned enemy - enemy can’t do a thing on its own. Unless delayed skill like Li Ming push ult has been used no characters should be able to counter it on its own.
And in that case, as I mentioned earlier, the Butcher would be massively nerfed in other aspects since now it cannot be allowed to deal as much auto attack damage due to it dealing that damage more reliably. Ruthless Onslaught being able to be countered, as discussed above, is why other aspects of the Butcher are so powerful.
Than Arthas shouldn’t be able to 1v1 any AA melee character be it even butcher without quest with 3 levels below.