This was on Alterac pass. Our wave clear is horrible and we’re bad at taking camps. Clearing pushes and enemy camps was also an issue. We don’t have the damage to take a boss quickly, so even when we did win fights, the spawn timers were too low for us to grab a boss. (But we had to defend against two, which took FOREVER)
I was trying to figure out what our team was good at, but I could’t get anything. Kerrigan was our main DPS, but even with Aba Hat, once she got CC’d by ETC or Valeera, the follow up was an instant kill. They could kill me withing less than a second as well if they chained.
If Nova tried to Flank Tassadar, Valeera would murder her.
Tass doesn’t have escapes, but Lucio picked High five. So he cleansed everything . And since ETC only had Kerrigan to worry about, peeling her was easy.
Since when do abathur kerrigan and Mei have horrible waveclear?
Kerrigan can solo take. Abathur can enable anyone to take. Nova straight off buys enemy camps.
Ganking. Your team has abathur which turns every 1v1 into 2v1. Your team has Nova that will deal lots of damage to both tank and their dps. Your team has a ton of cc and a strong engage, and a decent healer.
With Nova and abs, Nova can roam the lanes and gank, turning 1v1 into 3v1 will be an almost definite kill early game
Honestly, their Squishies should blow up in a second. Mei+kerrigan jump in with Ava hat, Nova slow and snipe, and they’re done.
Ava can also copy kerrigan and turn it in a cc hell. In kerrigan and Mei ult you have etc counter, you have plenty of tools to break valeera stealth, and cassia should be punished by mei and kerrigan.
Kerrigan is your initator, not your main dps. Your main dps lies between LiLi and Nova.
You jungle is Nova or Kerrigan. Nova can purchase them and Kerrican can actually solo them. Your boss is clear is bad. Last I checked, Kerrigan can Wave clear and be pretty efficient at it, especially with an Abathur.
Your team in general is pretty bad. Nova is forced to play a style that she wasn’t made to play. She’s more of a burst mage like Kerrigan and yet she’s forced to play DPS if that’s even a thing. The only way you guys could possibly win is if
A) The enemy team is attrotcious or
B) Abathur is a god.
or both.
Either way
Odds of winning are low. The only way I see victory is by ambushing at key points, and even then ETC is good at disrupting dives.
That game largely rested on Aba shoulders. Either he mined good to neutralize Valeera stealth and made good on Kerri clones. The fact that Lucio was bad enough to pick high five gave you fighting chance as you would’ve never gotten through the shields(and his horrid cleanse puts him into places he don’t wanna be in). Two ways you can fight TFs on the comp, either have Mei set up bunch of people in snowball to the team or she pushes bunch out and Kerri + Kerri clone initiate on the snowball or remainders. You’re combo team so it takes way more skill to execute. I assume that was QM from you getting 3 garbage tier heroes vs nearly full meta team?
Mei does have awful wave clear.
Abathur’s is actually pretty bad too, but he’s mobile so he can pick up experience where no one else is.
Kerrigan is the only one with decent wave clear in that comp.
I don’t know what anyone is talking about Mei or Kerrigan initiating.
Lili should initiate with her godly low cooldown Water Dragon.
It’s not like you want Jugs with that comp, its sustained healing like the rest of her healing, which isn’t all that helpful on Nova and useless on Abathur, and risks being interrupted by ETC and Valeera (and Lili should be near the front in my opinion)
The only things that will really threaten Lili are combos (or just being bad and tanking too many Tass beams…), but as soon as the enemy attempts it your team should be able to blow them up.
The main target should probably be ETC most of the time.
I see your team have a great amount of cc, but lacks aoe dmg (only Mei), but you have dangerous single-target dmg vs 4 potencial targets (except etc). If you can focus your dmg you can easily shutdown heroes 1 by 1.
It’s not the best, but it is far away from awful. Her W helps her a lot.
It does 179 damage.
Morales Displacement Grenade does 208 and has a shorter cooldown.
Sure Mei also has Snow Blind and Icing but then you’re using everything.
If you take Ice Storm it becomes better, doing 272.
I still think it’s pretty awful considering melee minions have 990 base health.
Nova, kerrigan and abathur could easily gib anyone, including ETC. All you had to do is bait lucio shield and then it is easy pie. Lili shuts down everything there except tassadar.
Their comp was easier to play.
Yours had something like kerrigan aba and nova pouncing on someone while mei isolated part of their team with either ult.
Mei should wait and peel for kerrigun with blizz and disrupt tass and cassia asap.
Either way it was hard on your comp.
There were a heavy load on both mei and kerrigun with little margin of error.
Melee minions practically do no damage unless you leave them alone for over a minute. I also find the values in gamepedia off since when I use the talented Blizzard it nearly kills wizard minions and leaves ranged minions on perhaps a third of their health. And during late game it goes even better.
Anyways, let’s compare this with a tank known for “good” waveclear: ETC
He does have higher AA dps for sure but when it goes for cycling abilities he has this.
Echo Pedal : 15 x 2.5 x 2 = 75 damage
Face Melt: 68 damage (doubled with Encore, Mic Check may also allow double cast)
So let’s assume an average situation of 3 procs of Echo Pedal and two waves of Face Melt. This would take you about 6 seconds to complete and cost 90-140 mana. Unless you’re desperate you wouldn’t use your powerslide since that both makes you vulnerable and removes your prime initiation tool.
It deals 361 damage which isn’t amazing compared to waveclear monsters yet it usually does pretty decently during late game.
Now let’s check Mei’s:
Blizzard: 13 x 8 + 75 x 2.25 = 273 damage
Snowball: 70 damage (can only hit front or back though Face Melt disperses minions so that can also result in lost damage)
Icing: 52 damage (x4 in its inner radius via Black Ice)
There are multiple ways you can go about waveclear and it depends on your build. But IMO the most cost efficient is a double cast of Blizzard with Icing pushing the frontline (unless double cast cannot finish off the ranged minions). This does take 9-10 seconds instead of ETC’s 6, though. Also costs 160 mana (or 140 if you don’t use Icing). Still it deals 545.5 damage with the Blizzards alone (597.5-753.5 with Icing depending if you hit Black Ice). Heck, you can just spend 20 more mana and you can double-cast Icing, too. That way you can get close to mage values.
That’s quite a lot from a tank who supposedly “sucks” at waveclear, doesn’t it?
Consequently I saw W-build Mei players output 100k+ siege damage and occasionally leading in that regard when you had some odd QM comp.
Mei doesn’t suck at waveclear, not by a tank standard, IMO.
EDIT: When I account for mana regeneration curiously enough Mei and ETC’s waveclear are about equal. ETC is only on top if his AA can allow him to clear up a wave in less than 10 seconds. Otherwise Mei’s much more damaging ability based waveclear has the same mana cost or even less than ETC! That’s quite a relevation for me and once Mei’s cost drops to 10k gold I’ll do my best to test how “bad” Mei’s waveclear truly is. Numbers wise she’d be only bested by the likes of Jo, I feel.
Yes, Kerrigan COULD take camps. But it would take forever. The Alterac camp has a lot of health. Which leaves Mei lili and Nova to lane. Neither of which is ideal.
I’m not sure how efficient it would be for Nova to take Covert Mission on a large map for a single camp. In any case, she didn’t pick it.
And yeah, obviously it was QM.
ETC went Stage Dive. Which makes sense when you know you can out-macro the enemy.
No, it only affects auto attacks.
Tassadar alone clears a double wave faster than Mei, Lili and Nova can clear one wave together in a lane. There was NO way we were getting map control lol.
