It’s extremely difficult to steal the camp on Alterac.
Even in pro games, I almost never see it unless they got a wipe and the obj is on the opponent side.
Also, since we only have 4 bodies. It’s easy to see a gank coming looking at the map.
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Mei’s waveclear is bad overall. Only if you pick Blizzard talent at lvl1, it helps a little more but still not enough. She basically can help out people with better waveclear but her alone won’t do much.
Their comp was just better I feel.
I did pick “Ice Storm”, out of necessity but I still hated my waveclear.
Yep, it’s not only flanked by a tower on one side but also a slowing puddle of mud on the other. It’s the hardest camp to invade in the game by far. And if you mess up, it’s hard to retreat, you will most likely die.
No matter how far back I try to think, I can’t remember a single instance of even trying to steal enemy spear camp on Alterac. I can only remember taking it when most of the enemy team was dead.
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I like how the op in this thread wants nothing else but the confirmation of how bad that team comp was. And every time someone points out the strengths of the comp he actively tries to counter.
Your real problem was not the composition.
It was likely people not playing heroes well.
There are some users in the forum that no one seems to bother to reply to. Sometimes I’m a bit sad for them but then, looking at what they regularly write. They reap what they sow.
12 range 70% slow for 4 seconds all but ensures the engagement happens on your team’s terms. With a 45 second cooldown almost every major engagement can be starting, or prevented that way.
It’s damage isn’t bad, and it all but ensures Nova lands her damage.
She might not be Uther levels of tank/support, but she’s one of the better supports for getting up there.
The biggest threat to her, especially if she has Abathur’s help, is ETC slide comboed with Valeera silence, Tass beam and Cassia Fend pretty much all at once.
But that’s 3 melee heroes grouped up, which should be pretty easy to punish with Kerrigan and Orbital.
You might lose Lili (though well timed Ice Wall or Induce Hibernation can probably save her), but you’ll win the fight.
If they don’t all combo on her, they’re probably not going to kill her.
If Valeera is flanking even better for the team. They’re no longer pulled in two directions trying to save Lili and help their “initiator” Mei. There’s nothing back there that Valeera wants to solo in on any more except Nova, but if Valeera catches her out that’s kind of Nova’s fault.
There’s really no reason for Nova to flank unless she really thinks she can solo kill Tass, but I really think she’s better off helping the team focus ETC. Without him the enemy team has very little protecting them from Kerrigan.
I’d consider ETC the lynchpin of their group, and Kerrigan key to yours, that’s why I would not initiate with Kerrigan. She’s too vital to be the one who is focused down and killed first.
That’s because it uses level 0 stats.
And Echo Pedal comes at 7.
Jo’s waveclear is also not great until 7.
Bruisers and assassins typically have better wave clear earlier.
By tank standards I guess it’s ok, but tank standards are often at the same level of support standards.
And late game isn’t when its going to be important, you need to keep up in the early game.
Side note, I played against an Abathur who was repeatedly tunneling to the bushes in top lane to send Locust to kill fountain right off the bat.
My team would have let him do it.
I kept checking top bush repeatedly until I made him stop, even while laning against another hero.
A decent Abathur can be a real pain.
I dunno, mei is pretty good at stealing camps.
Could also use Kerrigan and abba shield to possibility take towers with out minions. Could probably also do an early boss with that.
Aside from Tass, no one in that comp is going to be able to delete Mei without a fight. You send Mei in, with Li li as a back up while hat on li li or Mei. Nova should be poking tass as he can easily be deleted with a single, uninterrupted combo from nova. Even if he’s not deleted, he’ll have to run or die. There goes their main dmg.
Valeera will inevitably CC Mei or Li li at first before she decides to just camp Nova. Both Li li and Mei are durable enough to survive it but I think risking Li Li as an initiator is a bad move. Kerrigan just needs to jump on Valeera as she pops and throw out her CC, which inevitably, might catch more than just valeera.
Sure, Valeera can wait for Nova but if Nova is waiting for Valeera before flanking, then Valeera’s team just won’t have CC while she waits. Meanwhile, there’s still Mei, li li, Kerrigan, and Abathur in that fight vs ETC lucio, tass, and Cassia.
You’re team looks really funky, like qm style funky. You’d have to play aba perfect, and never get caught while soaking. You’d have to win the first objective 100 percent. The only thing that’s stopping them from getting to your backline is KINDA mei. Having nova is less lane clear overall. The only way I see you guys winning that game is if you catch them out early and snowball after. You’d have to catch them out and maintain a lead to win that. That’s how I’d see your team vs theirs.
Overall catching people out of position is like your go to in that comp and try to make one of them leave to deal with aba push. I’d have to go aba push build for this. This is just how I see it.
And THE MOST important THING OF ALL, DONT FORGET TO SOAK!
Honestly, I always pick Ice Storm myself because I feel it helps the waveclear. And sometimes you need to do it because your team won’t.
Still, it’s not great, that’s for sure.
Nice try, but was I wrong? All you need here is validation of how bad and disadvantaged your team was.
Even though you’re asking for advantages - and people are giving them to you - all that you really wanna hear is that there are none.
The matchmaker has been especially wonky these past couple days. I have no idea what’s going on, but I’m seeing comps and matchups I’d expect out of ARAM, not QM.
I just don’t think it’s really much of a risk when Water Dragon out ranges everything except Tass Shock Ray.
Mei should be up there, especially to Snow Blind Valeera out of stealth if she’s running around like that, but Mei is initiating with Icing they’re going to Force Wall and may do enough damage to Mei that you may end up falling back rather than advancing.
I’d rather try to force them to use Force Wall defensively.
Mei is durable, but she shouldn’t be taking free hits without some kind of payoff.
It’s not like Lili has to dive deep into them.
You’re just forcing the fight to happen when and where you want it.
Initiating.
I think it would be better to just bait ETCs dive and start attacking him, then when the enemy team converges to back up ETC, li li could use her water dragon then to reduce movement to let Kerrigan get easy combos or let Mei get a stun using snowball. I don’t really think Mei needs to dive in with Icing at all and I don’t think Li li needs to initate either.
Once the slow is out, abathur can clone Nova and double team Tass with reg nova to delete him unless Valeera is still sitting in stealth waiting for Nova, at which point Abathur can just hat Kerrigan or Mei.
I’m going with “your shafted”. Love all the theory crafting but the gist of it boils down to: you are a one hero burst comp, they deny that one hero kill and you lost.
Nova should have took bounty imo, you really need that camp during objective. Goes too slow and makes you lose soak in the mean time without.
Kerrigan combo is hard to pull off if with etc disruption.
Also my opinion about Mei in qm is that she feels weak if your team lacks a bruiser to follow up. Kerri is ok but she can be blown up with a well timed Valeera silence. Bruisers usually hold their ground longer and do solid damage.
Also Nova’s damage falls of hard the longer the game lasts, and Lulu’s healing is 
if you don’t take cups.
So yeah, if you don’t get that early hero kill in your toast with that comp.
Oh I don’t blame the MM. QM is QM. I don’t expect comps to be balanced there. But I always try to find what edge my team might have. In this case I couldn’t find it.
There is no way you’ll get that much Coordination in QM. Besides, High five makes Water dragon completely useless.
I wasn’t explaining that you SHOULD have won with magical QM coordination, I was just saying that leading with Li Li wasn’t a good idea to Fawx.