I had games where my allies threw because I didn’t ban Zera.
Anecdotal, I know, but it’s common enough to consider as a factor among the many.
If something is considered “op”, and can be played often in draft, unexperienced ppl can pick him more often. One of the reasons Diablo had a low winrate was because more ppl played him than should.
Agree. Medivh was op and first ban material before his nerfs despite having a low winrate and a niche status.
That’s among the reasons why I dislike the “look at the stats (from this third party site), here is your proof” and I prefer discussions about what ca do what and why is that a problem/not a problem and comparing dps numbers with that in mind that how easiy it is to maintain it.
That happens but I don’t think it happens enough to affect winrates that much. Maybe by 1-2% max.
Yeah, but the difference here is that he was considered op when he was actually not. In higher ranks/pro he was just a fine tank, while in lower-mid ranks he was picked a lot for some reason.
Based on what you posted, I would say a near 6% WR drop is pretty substantial even in Diamond. I feel a few posters here have also said it’s pretty normal for a hero to have a 60% WR in Masters, but I never actually checked to verify that.
Just like to point out that it happens every time a new hero comes out. Why is this a surprise? DW came out, nobody knew how to play him or counter him, so his winrate was ridiculous…then when people started figuring out that ANA CAN LITERALLY SOLO HIM…everybody started focusing him, and nuking him down in every teamfight. Just like when Qhira came out. Just like when every hero came out ever. Then they get nerfed, then they get patched, then they get reworked…
Go post something productive or creative, instead of crying about LITERALLY nothing.
Why? It could maybe be worded better (the bans don’t directly cause his winrate to drop, they just prevent it from rising), but the reasoning is sound. If he isn’t Banned, Deathwing gets to run rampant. Therefore, people ban him to prevent that from happening. They only times they don’t ban him is if they have a solid plan for beating him (or want to play him themselves).
Ban rates can affect win rates. Normally they don’t as not every Hero would be played every time (so a ban might not even matter), but when it comes to 100% ‘pick-or-ban’ popularity Heroes (like Deathwing is atm) they’re definitely a factor.
That’s not really the same. Niche Heroes don’t get played because they need a specific scenario (their niche) to function or there’s no reason to use them. The only reason Deathwing doesn’t get played is because people use bans to prevent him from appearing, not because he wouldn’t be effective.
(An other possible effect from high banrate: People picking him when he’s suboptimal just because they finally want a chance to play him).
Deathwing is still at or near the top of the winrate charts at all ranks, including Diamond and Master. The OP has a very strange definition of “plummeting”.
“When it doesn’t”? You have yet to explain how the stats no longer suit the overarching narrative of his overtuning. You’re using a small drop in winrate (and winrate alone) to paint the narrative of him falling into line with everyone else on the roster based on a single metric of data (winrates) without accounting for other variables involved (ban/pick/performance at masters+)
Keep in mind, both Ming and Kael (considered most broken releases ever) were slowly dipping in winrate as the days/weeks past, yet everyone including Blizzard still acknowledged they were broken.
Yeah, thats not what niche means. Xul, Gaz, and Probius are niche because there are only a few situations where they fit in an excel in. DW Excels on every map in virtually every team comp against any team comp (Yes including % damage).
What happens in draft more often than not, is the enemy uses most of if not ALL of their picks to counter deathwing, at which point, Deathwing either lanes or switches to worldbreaker form, eliminating the threat completely. This is where things usually fall apart because the enemy spends so much of their resources trying to counter DW that they have nothing to counter the rest of your team with.
No, he’s not advocating that he is “fine” or “balanced” but rather that he is so bad that he is considered horrible or not even worth a pick.
See below for details:
Playing devil’s advocate for a moment here. Let’s say that the stats do support that Deathwing is slowly falling into more balanced territory, In no universe do the stats prove that Deathwing is “horrible” (and by extension, in need of buffs)
It’s a good thing I never claimed that there were stats that indicated that he was terrible.
That’s just my opinion. You can think he’s the best thing since sliced toast, I don’t care if you have an opinion about him either way. That’s not the point of any of my posts on the topic.
This is my big question. Destroyer overwrites Worldbreaker so hard because the protracting is highly, painfully evident in the latter. So much so that you might take less damage from it than anything else in the game, if not for standing in fire breaths.
I wonder why they made it. He feels perfectly flush with Destroyer, was Worldbreaker needed?
