CDC#7 Kazakus, Leader of the Kabal [HC]

Hero and Skin Suggestions
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This is the link to the concept:

https://www.heroesfire.com/hots/concept/kazakus-10333

Over there I explained in detail the reason I chose Kazakus for this contest. I also explored his background a bit for those who don’t know him.

Normally, it takes a lot of time until I get a concept ready, so I truly hope I gave him justice within just few days. I included an almost (not yet :smiley: ) finished talent tree, just to give the first judges a better picture about this concept. This would also allow me for just minor reworks here and there over the next few weeks as unfortunately I won’t be having much spare time anymore.

I have to admit, by making such complex character I might have shot myself in the foot :see_no_evil:. It just happened that I was thinking of doing Kazakus in the near future and he fits perfectly into the contest theme! I really hope you enjoy reading it.

Please if you still have any questions or you are facing problems with the link, please let me know!

2 Likes
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So he has up to 7 secondary abilities?
EDIT: Also 2 different resources to manage.

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So, a simpler version of Invoker where you simply mix-and-match spell effects for a single potion ability?

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Hey Labreris, You summed it up nicely haha. I tried my best explaining it there, here’s another look how it works:

Just like Kazakus in Hearthstone, baseline Kazakus should mix two Ingredients for one spell effect. In the trivia of him, the developers asked themselves; “what if the players could make their own card?” I tried translating that into Hots as much as I could. Same in Hearthstone how Kazakus Potion text is generated dynamically, same would be for Kazakus Q, depending on Ingredients he adds and talents he takes. (Not just talking about adding talents’ text at the end of each ability text, like what we do have now).

Baseline Kazakus has 2 Ingredients available and after each talent tier that is not heroic or storm talent, he unlocks a new. This is to avoid him being too overpowered from the beginning of the game. The Ingredients limit per potion helps in that matter too. The stats of each Ingredient effect are also intentionally under-tuned because it’s taking into consideration more than one effect in one spell.

And then there are talents: most of them serve as potion recipes that Kazakus could learn alongside each Ingredient. Because every Ingredient is unlocked at every talent tier, this same tier would be centered about that Ingredient. Through talents, Kazakus can enhance his role as Support or Assassin. Talents also make it possible adding more than two Ingredients, enhancing the effects of one Ingredient, but some of them sometimes lose their own effect, some even have side-effects and adding more Ingredients also means it costs more resources, so it should be managed properly.

At first glance, one could say he has 7 secondary abilities, but in fact they are all one ability. One should note that if Kazakus used a Potion he can’t use another one for 5 seconds, they are all bound to his Q cooldown. Even the passive Ingredient that Kazakus has is compensated by giving him so much low base Basic Attack damage. If damage Kazakus decided to heal an ally (which is very small amount of health baseline), he is going to sacrifice dealing damage until the next Q is up. That said, Kazakus players should be flexible for every situation, not just blindingly sticking to their talented Potion Recipes.

Interestingly enough, when I wrote this concept the first time, I gave him 9 active abilities and made it part of the concept theme (Game Changers), as he’d be the first hero that’d receive a unique UI and Hotkeys profile that allows him to use 9 active buttons.

But then I backed down a bit haha :sweat_smile:. One scrapped Ingredient was Mystic Wool that made it into his Heroic (thus why we have three) and the last one was his level 20 Ingredient “Ichor of Undeath” that I think, it’d have made his enemies a bit salty :see_no_evil:. I’ll be adding all scrapped ideas soon. One last Ingredient left out is Stonescale Oil, but its effect has been covered by some talents and there’s just not much space anymore.

The additional resource bar I also couldn’t leave out, it’s an essential part of Kazakus lore. His Red Mana Trait gives a nice warlock-feeling to him as well.

Hopefully that also answered your question, as said before all the secondary abilities are bound to his Q.

As a side-note, I have to be honest here, I’ve never played Dota 2 and that’s the first time I actually check Invoker out. There are similarities in which they both make up their own spells. Kazakus Ingredients are directly inspired and taken from his actual card Ingredients from Hearthstone, while his talented Potion Recipes are inspired from both WoW and some of other Hearthstone cards. I’d like to think of Kazakus (hopefully) being unique enough in that regard and that he isn’t just all about mixing spells, he still has so many other tools in his kit that (hopefully) would make him even more unique, such as Enchanted Chains and Portal. Both of which are also inspired from his background story and concept art.

If anyone still has any question, I’d be more than happy to answer them.

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Don’t get me wrong I understand how he works. I think that his kit complexity can be toned down to make him more enjoyable. For instance his E has the additional effect of making Kazakus more vulnerable and grants him spell power for hitting heroes. This should be its own talent imo or the ability’s baseline power should be tweaked so that he shouldn’t have to lose 15 armor in casting it.

One criticism I have is how his Q ability steals the show, and Red Mana purely exists to spend on potions and does not offer any difference to normal Mana other than what I would guess is sweet immersive flavor? :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
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Kazakus motto sums up the whole concept theme nicely:

“Power should be attainable for anyone, at a price”

The last part is what I took heavily into consideration:

  • Kazakus can only obtain Red Mana through dealing damage to himself or killing enemy Heroes and minions.

  • The more Ingredients he adds to potions, the costly its price is.

  • Kabal Imp mimics potions but he takes damage each time.

  • Using Enchanted Chains in exchange of losing Armor. (Thematically, if Kazakus loosen up his chains, it makes him vulnerable of his own power and others.)

This all give him depth that he shouldn’t be spamming spells because he could, but at the same time the price should be worthy, therefor I gave for example Enchanted Chains Spell Power for hitting. If he doesn’t hit, all the passive effects of W and E end early.

I agree with you on the first part. As both of his traits and his W are built around his Q, the Alchemy part of the Alchemist kit does indeed steal the show x). I still tried my best to include other undiscovered parts of Kazakus lore such as his dragon form or portal and tried to make each ability interactive with one another in hopes it gives the player the feeling, hey I can mix and do other stuff! :smile:

About the Red Mana issue: It gives the player the option between balancing out both resources. Once he transforms 20% of his current Mana into Red Mana, there is no coming back, so if he needs that extra 10 mana to use one of his heroics or other abilities, he shouldn’t be doing it. The player should therefor predict and anticipate their situation ahead.

Red Mana is also being unique that is not generated per second and as explained before it doesn’t come free. Think of it like a life-tap. That’s what I meant when I said earlier it gives that warlock feeling.

In the original sheets of my concept, Red Mana has actually a cooldown of 15 seconds that I forgot to include. All trait talents are currently balanced around so. That gives extra constriction toward obtaining Red Mana and using Potions.

I’m open to any feedback in regard giving Red Mana more uniqueness to it.

Not at all, I’m actually happy I’m getting some feedback! and is the solo reason why I joined the CDC.

This concept is far from being perfect. In my opinion, a concept is only good when you let other people share their feedback and help building it up!

2 Likes
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Total Score - 18/20

Preliminary note: Week 1 judging does not generally include talents, so I’ll be judging your concept based on the base kit alone (taking into account the extra ingredients as Kazakus levels, but not the unique potion combinations). This is largely out of fairness to what everyone else has complete for week 1 considering the rules; you’ll get some in-depth talent feedback from Bliztron in week 2.

Creativity - 5/5
This concept definitely has a lot to it. The potions-mixing is a mechanic not entirely new to MOBAs, but new to HotS and well implemented. The secondary resource of Red Mana is interesting, and Enchanted Chains is a very interesting ability with its targeting and variety of utility. The dragon form heroic also adds a whole new layer of complexity with its own unique kit and playstyle.

Cohesiveness - 4/5
Kazakus’ kit has plenty of clear synergies, with Enchanted Chains clumping enemies to set up for his potions. However, like I said above, the kit really does have a lot to it, and might actually be a bit much. The complexity of Custom Potion on top of two more normal basic abilities, the secondary unique resource added in to interact with Custom Potion, and the extra layer of dragon form feel kind of overwhelming; I think the kit could do with a little bit of simplification while preserving the main interesting concepts.

Thematic - 5/5
The concept does match Kazakus well, integrating his potion mixing as well as many other Kabal themes into his kit. As for the contest theme of game changing heroes, I think the combination of Custom Potion’s spellmaking and the first Hearthstone original character fit perfectly.

Interaction - 4/5
Going back to the first two categories, Kazakus’ kit really does a lot. Some potion effects are overtuned (Heart of Fire plus Felbloom churns out an ungodly amount of damage), Enchanted Chains might just do too much (crowd control, movement blocking, combo potential, ally teleporting, and some damage all on a 10 second cooldown!), and the Icecap potion effect feels kind of gimmicky (mini-stasis is awkward since it blocks allied damage; a stun or root might fit better). Of course, all of these elements have counterplay in some way, so it’s just a small point penalty from me.

1 Like
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Hey Nortin! (and Bliztron!)

Thanks for the wonderful feedback, sorry that it took me time to respond, this week was busy for me. Fortunately I was able to update the concept in time (at ~ 22:47 EST, hopefully it’s still in time, weird working on another time system hehe :sweat_smile:). I’m just now taking my time responding here (my eyes are barely open anymore! :joy:)

Despite my little time, I tried my best changing the concept based on the feedback you gave and I think you definitely helped making the concept better!

Thanks for pointing that out! I reduced all his base numbers heavily, to make sure that a healer Kazakus doesn’t deal much damage or the opposite. One should still note that using Potions for pure damage consumes its cooldown and Kazakus cannot heal until it’s up again. Another thing I’d like to mention, that as part of his design, Kazakus should still be able to have access to different tools no matter what role he chooses.

As expected tweaking his numbers isn’t easy and I hope the talent tree helps in that regard a bit; in every talent tier there are talents that increase damage and talents that increase his healing output, so that Kazakus can’t choose both. If he went healing Potions, he sacrifices potential damage increase.
At every step, I put a recap of his potential healing/damage numbers. Additionally I put some comparisons with other heroes to help better estimate where Kazakus stands. Still I do feel numbers need a lot of work .

I increased its cooldown and reduced its direct and overall damage, but slightly increased its pull damage to reward good aiming. It sure does a lot, but Kazakus is also paying 15 of his Armor for it. :D. I’ll keep an eye on it, if it still needs more CD increase. Of-course any feedback in that matter is welcome!.

It also has its benefits, if Kazakus of course didn’t misuse it. It can block enemies’ burst damage or can be used as an escape tool putting a charging Butcher into Stasis (or self) :D.

That said, it turned out to be more consistent with other ingredients after I changed its effect. I took your advice and made it a Slow + Root. It can be an excellent extra CC option if Kazakus needed it, of-course in exchange of damage, as it doesn’t deal any!

And I left this one until the end. I had little time this week and I feel any cuts in this concept could have drastic changes on its other elements. I’ll still see how I can make this concept simpler!

Thanks again for the feedback! It was really great hearing other opinions about the concept and I’m looking forward your feedback Bliztron!

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Overall Score

Creativity - 5/5

Cohesiveness - 4/5

Thematic - 5/5

Interaction - 5/5

Total - 19/20

Creativity - 5/5

This a very complex character, and each element of its complexity is quite unique in its own right; rather than relying of the complex core to push forward the uniqueness, you made each ability unique in its own right, a trying endeavour to be sure. I think it works out really well within the character, and I am just in love with your talent tree. The idea of mixing potions to create greater recipes perfectly represents the idea of alchemy and chemistry, and I was quite delighted to read through it. I, for one, would really enjoy playing with this talent tree.

Cohesiveness - 4/5

While there are definitely ties between the abilities, and the entire talent tree is basically a giant list of ways to combine your abilities, I think there is perhaps just a little bit too much going on. Because of the complexity of the potion mechanic, the other abilities are already finding it hard to occupy room in the player’s mind, but to additionally provide allies with things to worry about with the teleportation of his E, it becomes just too much. I would recommend removing all of the teleportation functionality from his W/E, as they are already plenty unique in their own rights, and Kazakus has enough to worry about. I think the three heroics might also be just a tad too much, so I think you might want to either remove the teleportation heroic or the wool heroic, or combine them. Either way, I think the design just has a bit too much going on, which starts to take away from the character’s main gameplay loop. I’m also not really sure why Red Mana is a thing; I think instead of making the potion cost red mana, and it be a dual resource, perhaps make red mana just better than mana, but you need to sacrifice your life or the lives of other for the acquisition of Red Mana. It might also reduce the complexity of the character, allowing the player to enjoy the kit more.

Thematic - 5/5

There’s not much to say here; I think you nailed the idea of alchemy, and I think you nailed the representation of Kazakus, possibly even trying to shove too much into one little design. I think the complexity of themes here, with the idea of bringing Hearthstone in, the combo mechanic of the potions, and the new resource are all changes that minorly hit the theme, and so I will accept it, as there is enough here to build on for other characters.

Interaction - 5/5

I really don’t see any issues here as well. The character offers multiple ways to counteract his abilities, and everything is a skillshot. While I almost always sound like a broken record and bash summons, this incarnation is actually very much alright, as its main feature is copying potions, not just hitting enemies. All in all, it’s a very nice design.

1 Like
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Hey Bliztron! (And WhoYouExpect!) Thanks for the amazing feedback! it was indeed worth waiting for!. I’m also really happy that you enjoyed reading the talent tree :smiley: .

As for the mentioned issues, I tried my best to cover most of them. I removed the teleport mechanic and made the second heroic a storm talent. They are not quite the same, but they both have the same idea behind them. This should help giving Kazakus more defined kit and design.

As for Red Mana; its current purpose and uses already explained in my previous replies. Unfortunately I didn’t have time to fully reconsider its mechanic, as one slight change can affect the whole kit.

The latest possible change I come up with is this:

Kazakus learnt the usage of another energy resource that primarily empowers his Custom Potions. By default Custom Potion’s cost is taken from stored Red Mana first then normal mana if the amount is insufficient, increasing the effectiveness (Damage, Healing, Buffs and Debuffs stats) of Kazakus’ Custom Potions proportionate to the amount of Red Mana used, up to 100%.

Activate the Trait Button [D] to harness the Red Mana resources inked into Kazakus tattoos, restoring 20% of Kazakus’ maximum Red Mana and corrupting 10% of current mana into Red Mana, but he takes 100% of amount gained as damage.

Passive: Killed enemy minions drop Lesser Red Mana Crystals that each restores 5% of his current maximum Red Mana by collecting them. Killed enemy Heroes drop Greater Red Mana Crystals that each restores 100% of his maximum Red Mana.

Maximum Red Mana: 245 (+5 per level)

I decided to not put it in yet, because this means I have to redo all of his numbers and that needs some extra time that I unfortunately didn’t have. I believe this change would allow Kazakus players to worry less about managing both resources and would also make Red Mana just better than mana as you suggested.

Another possible quick change I considered that basically has the same result and doesn’t require me to redo all his numbers;

Something along the lines: if Kazakus doesn’t have sufficient Red Mana, the required missing Red Mana is substituted with normal mana, but the Potion deals a percentage less of everything equal to the percentage of normal mana used for the Custom Potion cost, up to 50% less.

I’m somehow satisfied with current Red Mana trait. I really like for example how its talent build turned out to be. Even with other builds, Kazakus still has access into at least one talent that helps him acquire more Red Mana. That being said, I’m still considering ways of making Red Mana more appealing and better.

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Creativity - 5/5

This kit is very creative, and has a large number of interesting options available to it. While there may be a small over-abundance of potion talents, I think it works with the character well enough that it isn’t too large of a problem. The large variety of unique talents for ‘Special Potions’ gives you very creative ways to build him, and I really like it.

Cohesiveness - 5/5

With the removal of some probably a little extra effects with the allied teleportation, I feel like this is the appropriate score here. Each of Kazakus’ abilities work well with his Potions, or, in the case of [R2], work well with giving him a different way to approach situations.

Thematic - 5/5

This kit is pretty spot on for a Kazakus kit, with potions mixing, other elements of the Kabal, and even a nod to him supposedly being a dragon. It also works well enough within the theme of the contest, with his Potion mechanic and even some of the ideas behind Red Mana working as possible future foundations. That, and if they were seperated from Warcraft heroes, he also stands as a Hearthstone hero, one of the only ones we’re lacking.

Interaction - 5/5

Having a hero built around skillshots and setting them up can get frustrating as the player behind it, but can also be one of the more rewarding heroes to play well, so overall, I believe it’s well done in this category.

Overall Score

Creativity - 5/5
Cohesiveness - 5/5
Thematic - 5/5
Interaction - 5/5

Total - 20/20

Additional Notes

Your proposed changes to Red Mana, both being variants of the same idea, I really like. Both could work, but I don’t have any leaning towards either one being better or worse of an implementation of it.

1 Like
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Hey WhoYouExpect!

Thank you so much for the feedback. I’m glad to see that those changes helped making the concept better and thank you all three for the amazing feedback you have given so far!

As promised I installed the second change to Red Mana trait, as I felt the first one (while it maybe sounds more appealing) would complicate things, something that I’m trying to avoid. :sweat_smile:

All other changes and some other comments I have included in the change-log. Can’t wait for the final judging!

P.S.: One final thing that I’d really love hearing your opinions about. I’m thinking of removing the storm talent Twisting Nether as I feel it doesn’t really add much to Kazakus’ play-style and adding a new sustain talent to the Red Mana build:

Kabal’s Eternal Life: Whenever Kazakus gains Red Mana other than activating the trait [D], he also restores health, equal to (100%-200%) of amount gained

So this would have good synergies with Red Mana Leech talent and Red Mana Crystals/Geodes, but Kazakus would still take damage when activating the trait. However because Kazakus has access to Goldthorn I’m questioning whether giving him much sustain even at 20 is a good idea. On the other hand, at 20 it would encourage Blastcrystal Kazakus to “life-tap” more often.

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Innocence - 100/100

Creativity: 10/10
Cohesiveness: 10/10
Thematic: 10/10
Interaction: 10/10
(+2 Thoughtfulness, +1 Game Fluidity)

1 Like
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this hero concept is terry complicated but i can see you put a lot of work into it i am kinda late to this i guess but still wanted say nice job you earned it you really do deserve to win and i am anticipating the arrival of your hero int hots

1 Like