Butcher is beyond broken

General Discussion
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Point and click. Boom. Hero deleted. No skill, no counterplay, nothing. All your opponent can do is pray their team bails them out.

As a master skill-level zagara main, I find butcher to be uncounterable in the hands of a competent player. Why? Because butcher has the most broken ability in the game. Ruthless Onslaught. It’s basically Illidan’s Hunt on a hero with much better damage, lifesteal, and health on a significantly shorter cooldown as a basic ability. Oh, and also baseline nexus blades with his Q, because that’s perfectly balanced.

The moment butcher presses E, his effectiveness ramps up to 11 and he destroys anything in his path. No counterplay. None. Unstoppable, charging faster and faster and then stunlocking the hero to death with nothing they can do.

Even if they manage to survive the initial stun, they will die to Lamb to the Slaughter, the single most OP ultimate in the game. Chain a hero in place, stop them from using any defensive abilities, make it so they can’t be cleansed.

Basically a perfectly guaranteed kill that cannot be dodged or cleansed.

His auto attack damage is absurd. From 0 meat it’s already extremely strong, and once quest is completed butcher can easily enter 700+ damage auto range with nearly 2 attack speed.

Tell me how this is fair. Tell me how this is balanced.

Not even blinds matter, because Butcher can still deal very respectable damage with his melee mage build, mage butch (Invigoration at 1, Cheap shot at 4, Savage Charge at 13). This easily deals 50% of a squishy’s health and completely negates any “counterplay” with blinds.

On top of that, Butcher even has the single highest HP of any assassin, even having more HP than most tanks. Tell me how this is balanced. How. I don’t see how you can even TRY to pretend butcher is fair.

Getting stacks is pitifully easy with any sort of waveclear for butcher to rotate with, easily ramping his autos up to the strongest in the game by level 10, with several ganks in between (which isn’t hard seeing as you can garuanteed kill most heroes with the stun + magebutch combo).

You see why butcher needs nerfed now? He is game-breaking with his insane power level and I assume he will be getting hit with a seriously major batch of nerfs next patch. Thank you

Secant Out

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The legend himself returns from the old forums. Not all heroes wear capes.

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HYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH

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Proof please.
Thank you!

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That’s pretty rude of you. I’m not going to go into hero league to get master to prove I can. Why would I play a gamemode where sometimes I will be unable to pick zagara due to her being banned? I don’t think I’m going to risk that.

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https://i.imgflip.com/2rc0m0.jpg

(I don’t have trust level 3, so if anyone wants to share it :stuck_out_tongue:

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Here you go:

That said, I think this guy is obviously trolling anyways.

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well, uploading replays to hotslogs to show that you are at that level, or posting some replays as evidence…

While posting replays themselves is a pain, for Hotslogs, all you have to do is download the replay uploader and it will do it in the background!

This could all go towards helping prove your case.

I disagree with much of what you wrote, but that is secondary. Don’t go around claiming you’re at X level unless you either:

  1. have proven it
  2. can easily provide cites that support it.

The fact is there is a thing called the Dunning-Kruger effect is why I ask for evidence when someone claims to have a position of authority/knowledge/etc.

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seems kinda silly to suggest you’re so expert a zag to rag on butcher when she’s one of the few heroes that can literally bypass the ‘unstoppable’ qualm as you so describe.

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You hope you’ll never meet monster known as Chen. That dude just keeps taking damage until you have no mana, the hero is utterly broken! He even throws booze away, what kind of monster would do that? :scream:

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I’m not going to open my computer up to collection of personal info. Internet safety 101. For all I know HOTSlogs will sell my info and I’ll wake up in a bathtub in northern canada missing a kidney. but I do not need to prove anything, especially when it’s so clear I have rather extensive game knowledge by my extremely complex post.

I always pick Nydus Worm.

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Well that explains the fear of Butcher then I hear he is a fairly prominent organ harvester in the black market. And for the rest of your parts… well his name gives it away.

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Butcher is the cutest video game character I have ever seen.

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…
So do you not use the internet at all? Because you think no one would have noticed any issues with the Hotslogs uploader? (not to mention you could manually upload, but that of course takes much more effort)

People who use such websites tend to be more technically minded.

but, I can see you’re unwilling to actually provide any evidence to backup your claim.

Anyhow, gonna have to imagine this is just you suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect, and thinking you’re a Master tier player as Zagara, when in fact you are not.

the fact you always take nydus reinforces my opinion

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And that is a problem. A good player adapts to the enemy’s team. Doesn’t just blindly always go for the same talents, regardless of the situation.
Hell, I always take Maw when I play against the Butcher, and sometimes I screw him up really bad.

Furthermore, his Lamb on the Slaughter is cleansable. I don’t know why do you claim otherwise.

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oh, interesting, learned something new here!

thank you

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claiming a hero to be ‘uncounterable’ when you choose to forgo the counter doesn’t mean they’re uncounterable.

Your concerns on fair/balanced in this regard come from a direct skew of perception in both claim of effect, and lack of due diligence in valid counters. Kinda hard to ‘see’ balance when you’re choosing to wear horse-tack blinkers.

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this is literally an undeniable fact of logic.

butcher is broken. he is not insanely overpowered all the time, he is easily countered. but when he is not, he automatically wins the game. that is what makes him such a cancer to me, a exclusive QM player.

butcher has a tyrael ult on a 10 second cooldown. it trades displacement for the ability to safely cancel it, but still stuns the primary target and allows virtually unbeatable followup. the only thing that can stop butcher while charging is stasis, and very few heroes can accurately freeze him.

one he stuns you from across the screen, he proceeds to silence and root you within his autoattack range, where he can proceed to destroy you with insane damage and keep him self at full health unless blinded in that exact moment. if you somehow survive and run away, he will just slow you again and his movespeed will kill you.

butcher can stick to any single target in the game without the ability to fight him in return. fighting butcher 1v1 is suicide. there is nothing in the entire history of the game that can defeat him toe to toe, you absolutely must have multiple heroes blowing huge spells backing you up to 1. survive and 2. eliminate him from the fight.

he is in the same boat as sgt hammer. he can be the most op thing in the world that cannot be defeated, but given a lucky diceroll comp you can manage to defeat him, but this is incredibly difficult anyway. butcher must be suppressed in lane, if you allow him to hit 200 meat he will win every fight one by one and there is no much at all you can do about it, so you have to try and win with some kind of cheese because you cannot fight him with his team. heroes that enable butcher further compound the problem of ‘dont go near him’ which really is not a counter mechanic.

butcher had 90% grandmaster winrate when i was playing 7 months ago, and i have said that ruthless onslaught is the most op offensive spell in the game for years now.

on an unrelated note, the most op defensive ability in the game is circle of protection, and the most op utilitarian ability is also on medivh, lls.

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Okay, lol.

unproven and unwilling to prove your level of skill.
Especially unlikely given that…

I think that Dunning-Kruger effect is in play.

Butcher does not have Void Prison. Or any other Time Stop/similar abilities.

Oh, no. That is not the most broken ability.

Also, Butcher and Illidan are different heros. Illidan is a counter AA assassin. Against targets who deal damage mostly through Auto Attacks (like, for example, Butcher!) Illidan’s kit is generally better.

It should also be noted Illidan has lifesteal built in to every one of his auto attacks.

I play against Butcher sometimes, and he usually doesn’t do that much.
As long as you’re not out of position. Ruthless Charge, unlike the Hunt, does not have massive range, and takes far longer to reach the target.

In most cases if this happens it is because you were not in a good position, or it is the middle of a teamfight, which is something you touch on later.

So, in Starcraft Brood War, mass carriers is a incredibly powerful army. How do you counter it?

The answer is not “do X Y Z” but the answer is to stop them from getting there.

Also, Butcher’s attack speed even with Enraged, at level 16, caps out about 1.5 attacks per second.

All of your scenario so far is 1v1ing butcher.
Maybe, just maybe… Some heroes are way better at 1v1 fights than others!

Abathur for example, loses a 1v1 to every other hero. Well, Monstrosity might kill them, but abathur will almost certainly die before the other hero. How is that fair? How is it balanced that there is not one hero that Abathur can 1v1!?

LOL
okay. At level 13, assuming that Hamstring is cast “perfectly” timed. That deals about 550 damage, plus 10% of the targets health over about 3 seconds after Charge hits.

The only heroes I think that deals over half their HP would be Abathur and Erik.

Yes, a whopping 38 more HP than varian. Incredible. Truly a massive difference.

Ganks only work if the target is out of position. If you’re playing against a butcher

  1. be very mindful of butcher being missing
  2. WHY ARE YOU NOT GANKING BUTCHER?!

I can see that you’re clearly not as good as you think you are. Or rather your play might regularly be at that level, but you do not adapt to play against Butcher. But can adapt against everyone else.

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Illidan? level 1, Illidan will beat him?

Artanis at level 20 might be able to, with the right talents?

Junkrat might be able to beat him, but that depends on the levels and the talents. And would require very good play from junkrat.

Malthael might be able to beat him.

But, regardless of that fact… Some heroes are better in some scenarios