Damage damage damage is a toxic playstyle I don’t like. Instead to keep his late game power or even increase it in a healthy way, reduce damage but buff survivability
Blinds will still affect butcher but his playstyle won’t be “feast or famine” in a teamfight by going all in (you can tell I don’t like all in heroes). He’d still have feast or famine in the sense not getting meat means he’s weak, but at least getting meat won’t be an instant loss for the enemy, while butcher would feel more powerful late game by surviving focus fire, and blinds
Agree. no other hero has so many weaknesses. if you pick him, you gonna suffer real hard and make you’r team lose the game Because you picked a bad hero.
I think problem with butcher is that he is shut down to easy. I think that his brand should have passive effect - heal 10% of dmg dealt on non heroics, doubled against hero. While used on targeted hero bucher healing against this hero is equal 75%.
Umm, it’s a toss up for me between not wanting the Butcher or Illidan.
Likewise, though I do think The Butcher needs a rework. They perhaps should go the Mei route and be less faithful to his lore, or incorporate other lore abilities he has in Diablo 3.
In D3 he has an Ancient Spear attack, which is too similar to Sonya. He has a “Heavy Smash” which causes him to leap, that could be either a replacement ability or something you could talent into.
The only other talent they left out was “Sickle Grab” which functions much like Stitches hook. They could use it, but just make it very low range and not have a stun on it. This would give him another form of engage, considering he lacks an escape it wouldn’t be OP.
Part of the problem is it’s such a huge power gap and he really doesn’t do a lot when he’s building it up. Others have to do it for him. To me, that should be less the case, so that he’s not in such dire straits when behind; he should be able to catch up with solid effort and it shouldn’t be one minion meat at a time.
That’s why any scaling heroes I make have gradual scaling and nothing lost on death—> like zul’jin or nazeebo. Making a binary win/lose scenario like butcher means one team is going to complain after the game.
I don’t mind team-reliant heroes at all, but butcher’s kit is just bad. If he had increased movement speed by even 5% after basic attacking heroes, that’d be enough for skilled players to kite while continually hitting one hero. His kit is just a mess and I’d rather leave him like nova, in the trash can, and move on to new heroes
I think between passive and brand he experiences the worst of his kit, charge and hamstring seem fine to me, if a bit bare bones and basic.
The problem with brand is it’s a giant “please kite Butcher now” button, while his passive as you said forces him into binary situations constantly.
My idea is to suppress a bit of that team reliance while crunching in on his low early game and high late game, leveling the disparity between the two. But the question is if the meat mechanic as a whole needs to be fine tuned, or done away with.
That said, given how long AI has remained in the trash, and how long it took them to churn out that Tass rework, I’m not sure I want them to spend too much time on a rework for Butcher when be does still function, if tenuously. AI is something in more dire need of fixing.
I think if Brand weren’t such an awkward effect, it might feel better. I could be very wrong. Charge is pretty nice, might just serve to give him that unstoppable after it lands too for 1s or so?
Decay probably isn’t necessary on the slow at all though, you’re right.
Also, his attack range feels so short compared to the other melee assassin. for example. bucher can’t not auto attack enemy heroes who are inside nazeebo zombie wall, he will simply just walk there and do nothing.
The issue with butcher is that two of his abilities are point and click and he only has one skillshot; ergo, the only real way to differentiate good butchers from bad ones is basically timing when they should dive or not (A skill that most other heroes have to learn as well).
I don’t really have a good answer to how to fix this really, as any changes to this would be a MASSIVE change to how he plays and piss of butcher mains.
Kind of make me think, how much is that popularity is from people who simply like them as characters? like they know Artanis and Kerrigan aren’t exactly top picks, but they do it anyway because they’re their favourite hero.
As far as heroes go Butcher is IMO in pretty decent spot. His talent tree is overall healthy without too many broken outliers.
I prefer to think Butcher as a cruel teacher, who pretty much teaches how HotS should be played. He teaches you soak, awareness, risk assessment and positioning. You either learn or you feed. Same goes when playing against Butcher. You note his presence, try to slow him down as much possible and when he completes his quest you face him as group, focus him and burst him down. You either learn or you feed.
What comes to being one-dimensional, it’s only partly true. His damage before finishing his quest, while not great is not insignificant either. And merely by existing, he demands proper response from both the enemy and friendly team. Who is better at this has great chance to win.
Then again, when you master Butcher you might as well play some better hero instead.
Not really , I am trying to give him early game utility outside of basic attack damage while giving him talents for his trait if he thinks he can achieve quest with no problems and gamble on getting more benefits out of it. Introducing fear to him is fitting to his lore and initial impression he had on us in Diablo 1
Or he could continue being a meme? I dont see issue with having a noob stomper. Its not bad for balance to have 2-4 heroes who are op in lower ranks/qm and not in higher ranks.