Let me use forum logic , let’s give 300hp to nova, valeera, zeratul , samuro and illidan , it is just an AA from stukov anyway.
I am down for it.
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300 hp is a significant buff. 50 hp is not. Is that very hard to understand?
You need data to determine if that is the case or not and not something retarded like “it is just an AA from x hero”.
1 more sec on diablo’s Q did not impact him as much as 1 more sec on malganis’ which made him unplayable for months.
Different numbers show different results for different heroes.
Is that so hard to understand?
If the data shows that genji needs more hp and or less seconds on D before he gets unbearable to face then be my guest.
But if your line of reasonning is i FEEL that genji needs more hp then i can say i FEEL that 400 extra hp for illidan is insignificant.
So see the data and then see if it needs buffs or not.
And by the way some people did say that 200 hp on xul was not enough when he got reworked.
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Ok NOW you’re advocating for data when you started with the whole " Genji feels more resilient with 50 hp" Here I’ll even quote it for you.
Quit flip flopping.
You don’t even seem to understand your own statement, if you did, you wouldn’t be comparing Tychus AA to Stukov AA. And again, Genji’s health buff is not even ONE Tychus AA (50 hp buff vs 52 dmg base) NOT the definition of resilience. You then go on and say:
Dude what are you on?! You’re assigning that 300 hp to heroes at random, Nova has 2.8k health at 20 vs Valeera’s 4.4 K, and let’s not even get into their kits! There is a MASSIVE difference between 52 dmg per AA vs 271 AA base, one translates to 110 dmg at lv 20 the other is a whopping 572. Come back to argue AFTER you understand “False Equivalence”, level scaling and hero kits. ATM no one is giving your comments any credibility.
Yes and he deserves it exactly like that. A hero what a that broken basekit should never pass balance testing. More specifically the basekit combined with the reset mechanic.
2 Likes
I don’t disagree with this post though. 13 talent/health buff with cd increase on teait were great healthy changes.genji could still use some buffs to make him more accessible.
Sure buff him again so his D can now be on a 40s CD meanwhile he might get another 5hp to trade off. No thanks. NO more buffs please it just keeps getting worse
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I think his mobility is in a good place rn and they can do more to buff his dmg.
Idk it seemed like higher level genji’s called this a buff but we’ll see.
I’m sorry HOW is the base kit broken? He has no CC, sub standard waveclear, limited aoe outside Heroics, RISKY AF burst and ZERO sustain talents. Moreover 3/4’s of his mobility tools are fully interruptible same goes with his damage mitigation. If you can’t see what he gave up for his mobility ( that has been significantly nerfed since release while many heroes have seen mobility creep. ) and are on the receiving end of his E resets b/c you chose to stay in the fight at 5% health it’s on you to get good.
You are delusional if you don’t see it. It’s just that the numbers and the range went down so that he is not a big thread any more. The basekit design as such is just broken.
Yes, skip right to the personal attacks while ignoring the need to back up your claims that a hero without CC, waveclear, sustain, limited aoe and a short fully interrupitble damage mitigation ability has a broken kit. Very credible.
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The constant nerfs for the Master+ and competitive play should be prove enough. No need for me to try to convince somebody with Genji logo in the forum.
You list downsides which are totally normal for an ranged assassin and/or for this particular pick. Yes Waveclear is not the best, but you are in a team of 5 and E still allows some waveclearing. I’m not speaking for bronze QM here.
Genji had an average of 50% winrate across HGC Eastern/ Western Clash and Finals. This is cherry picking the winrate of Genji on the best teams across the globe. https:// masterleague. net/hero/genji/?p=56&p=55&p=54&p=53&p=52&p=51&p=50&p=49&p=48&p=47&p=46&p=44&p=43&p=42&p=41&p=40&p=38&p=39&p=37&p=36&p=35&p=34&p=33&p=32&p=31&p=30&p=29&p=28&p=27&p=26&p=25&p=24&p=23&p=22&p=21&t=373&t=374&t=375&t=353&t=354&t=307&t=308&t=309&t=278&t=258&t=245&t=244&t=243&t=242&t=241&t=220&t=216&t=178&t=175
If we look at GenG, the very best team, Genji had an average of 76% w/r across 19 games. Everyone barring Li Ming on their tier one, tier two even tier 3 list of assassins had higher win rate. https:// masterleague. net/team/Geng/heroes/?rd=0001-01-01&m=&h=37&h=56&h=74&h=72&h=86&h=8&h=43&h=18&h=55&h=9&h=76&h=14&h=65&h=10&h=44&h=52&h=67&h=79&h=50&h=19&h=21&h=26&h=78&h=45&h=70&h=36&h=66&h=47&h=54&h=75&h=28&h=85&h=7&h=2&h=73&h=3&h=71&h=24&h=39&h=40&h=15&h=48&h=42&h=63&h=46&h=77&h=83&h=32&h=68&h=53&h=82&h=23&h=13&h=35&h=25&h=84&h=64&h=60&h=29&h=11&h=41&h=58&h=38&h=22&h=17&h=69&h=4&h=33&h=1&h=5&h=6&h=51&h=16&h=20&h=34&h=31&h=62&h=27&h=59&h=81&h=49&h=80&h=12&h=57&h=30&h=61
Greymane had a higher win rate at the same tier as Genji while Li Ming is only 2% points behind for Team Dignitas. Most of their tier 2 assassins had higher win rates save for Tychus. https:// masterleague. net/team/dignitas/heroes/?rd=0001-01-01&m=&h=37&h=56&h=74&h=72&h=86&h=8&h=43&h=18&h=55&h=9&h=76&h=14&h=65&h=10&h=44&h=52&h=67&h=79&h=50&h=19&h=21&h=26&h=78&h=45&h=70&h=36&h=66&h=47&h=54&h=75&h=28&h=85&h=7&h=2&h=73&h=3&h=71&h=24&h=39&h=40&h=15&h=48&h=42&h=63&h=46&h=77&h=83&h=32&h=68&h=53&h=82&h=23&h=13&h=35&h=25&h=84&h=64&h=60&h=29&h=11&h=41&h=58&h=38&h=22&h=17&h=69&h=4&h=33&h=1&h=5&h=6&h=51&h=16&h=20&h=34&h=31&h=62&h=27&h=59&h=81&h=49&h=80&h=12&h=57&h=30&h=61
On the very best teams, their most played assassins can win them the game. Genji was popular, but other heroes do enjoy higher win rates without being odd pick.
That’s was competitive where there’s coordination between the team, and it just goes downhill from there. Want more evidence? https:// heroeshearth .com/b/critickitten/read/hero-priority-at-the-2018-western-clash/ His winrate CRATERS once out of Dignitas and GenG’s hands.
Tell that to Jaina, KT, Valla, Orphea, Fenix, Gul’dan, Raynor, Tychus, Hanzo, Greymane, Falstad, Lunara, Azmo, Chromie, Nazeebo, Junkrat, Tassadar. I’ll put it this way, OVER 85% OF RANGED ASSASSINS HAVE GREAT WAVECLEAR barring Nova, Zuljin and possibly Mephisto.
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You have GOT to be joking if you think high elo automatically makes games coordinated.
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Yes, blow your engage/ escape ability with 12 second cool down that does 40% of a MAGE minions life, “some waveclearing” right there.
There’s no need for anyone in this thread to take you seriously until you come up with valid arguments which you haven’t remotely gotten close to doing.
Piece the links back together for forum doesn’t allow linking
3 Likes
Again, I don’t have to prove you anything. You are delusional.
The nerfs happened a long time ago and also for reasons. Also it was a step by step nerf which was done because of particular Blizzard internal stats and impressions.
And yes Guldan and others have better waveclear. But does he have protected and mobility? No he doesn’t. So nonsense like that doesn’t prove anything beside the fact that you really tryhard without having arguments at all. If you balance a hero, you only look into the particular hero and don’t do it with senseless comparisons.
Messa, you are 100% right.
Again starting out with personal attacks and no valid argument to back up your ravings REALLY doesn’t help your case.
Games moved on from 2017 you should too, and again he’s not an auto win hero you’re claiming him to be. Even in the hands of GenG and Dignitas, there are heroes with higher winrates. Outside those two teams his winrate sinks faster than your failed attempts at convincing this thread your arguments are worthwhile. That’s saying something.
Why would he need protected or mobility when he’s got 3 ways to sustain himself? (drain life, consume soul, health stone) and possibly one of the best AOE CC talents in the game? A protected that lasts for 1.25 seconds and fully interuptible… yup really got me there.
Tunnel visioning by looking only at the hero you’re trying to balance without taking into account what other heroes within the same class or role can or cannot do ** IS** what LEADS to balance issues. If you think heroes are designed/balanced in a silo without looking at the roster I suggest you STOP trying to argue unless you to further lower your near non existent credibility.
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You destroyed him with arguments, congratulations. Aubergine is a very deep Anti-OW person, making it impossible to change his mind.
Edit: Do you play in NA or EU?
Don’t usually frequent the forums until this past Genji change. I’m NA.
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Perfect, then in a few minutes I will send you a friend request 
Maybe I can’t play now 
I’m not requesting a change, you do. I only tried to explain why BLIZZARD nerfed the hero x times. It happened buddy, it happened. And they had reasons for it. It’s ok that you don’t see the issues but you should at least not be too lazy to read the patch notes.
You have exactly zero clue how the process looks like. When you design a kit or a hero you look into the overall picture. Balance patches are solely stat based for one particular hero or talent.
There are a few heroes which have a broken basekit designs (not numbers!). Genji is one of them and that’s why you saw the nerfs. Believe it or not, I don’t care. It happened for reasons so deal with it.
Genji needs a rework to be viable in all leagues without being broken in the highest level of play.