I actually did call out a different troll w/ reverse psychology and it worked to get him to help us. People were pleading with this dude on Mephisto to stop AFKing or sitting in base insuling us since we were doing decent 4v5. I’m pretty sure he said racist stuff to people who asked him nicer than I did.
The stuff I said was ruder but he was toxic and I was secretly upset so I played it off like “it’s okay guys, Mephisto is a very hard hero to play, he just doesn’t want to be outshined by the other Mephisto” and something like “gonna be a long game 4v5 since the other team isn’t that good”. We had two Mephistos and obviously the one playing had way more stats at that point.
He did stop AFKing and then said he carried us at the end (reverse psychology FTW). He did get some decent kills and we won. I’m sure we all reported him since he said racist stuff IIRC. He probably also figured it was less effort to help than try to make game end since I claimed that the enemy team was weak but they actually weren’'t.
The Hanzo here was a different breed though. He could have been a good player (had a ton of kills and no deaths) without the mercing and AFKing. We stomped every 5v5 prior to him imploding. It could simply be an intelligence issue and it hit home that he didn’t have the field smarts. Yes, I wanted out for sure, no questions.
If he’s watching people merc and not helping he’s playing badly and would likely cost the game if he continued to do so. People can be generally okay and make stupid plays. Those are the players where saying something can actually have more impact if they’re receptive to hear it. If they’re not, that’s fine too, but you did what you could. It’s this magical thinking that I can save the game if I just coddle the troll a little more that I find funny.
Look, you can have your own way of dealing with people. Not saying this is like the one true way. Like Minky said, it just depends on the psychology of both players. I just think Ayzeiza’s meme is dumb, aside from the last slide and his general approach goes too far and is naive in itself of how bad outcomes can be changed by doing nothing or placating a troll.
Telling a person to stop doing something harmful is hardly some crazy act. If they continued to go afk or not help the group, would have likely lost, whether Sal went afk himself or not. So wouldn’t really a big deal for me either way.
LoL, the way you’re getting so defensive is pretty cute. So much for that social agility.
I’ve no interest in combing through my many games lol. I almost never look at my replays except to confirm people gaslit me in a game. I also don’t have a special file of Volun saves the day with his magical mean words. I just know that some people change how they play after you give them some advice. I mean, that shouldn’t REALLY be that controversial.
Most players obviously wouldn’t outright say it was because of my advice (though a few have). They just happened to changed their behavior, and the game started getting better. And some will still say I’m wrong, others will go mysteriously quiet because they saw how a change in their behavior affected the outcome and want to save face. People are all different.
Whether they’re trolls or not, that’s going to be a bit more murky to define. It doesn’t really change how I play though. Calling someone like a Hanzo who is performing like they are a “full on” troll doesn’t seem quite right.
LoL, on the low IQ comment though. As if IQ is correlated to how much someone finds your dumb memes funny. Wouldn’t want to channel PureBlooded now.
I’m just a fool that has played this game way too much, and have the natural talent to be able to click quickly to be good at a video game. But you do you. I’m sure you’ve saved so many games by your silence and social agility to win at your skill level. It’s probably catapulted you a standard deviation otherwise, oh wait…
Do you honestly think that this Hanzo is receptive to hear it if he played well the whole match but deliberately trolled his team? My assumption is someone pissed him off so now he’s throwing. At that point telling him he’s “noob trapped” is not exactly something that should make him excited to keep playing. The fact you think what he said was okay and that it would inspire him to stop trolling is what is silly.
I get you have this ambition to say whatever you want when you want, but not everyone is like you. 3 other people besides me liked the meme. I thought it was funny You didn’t like it because you’re the guy who speaks even when it won’t be helpful. It might work on some people, but Hanzo is not in that group of “some people” otherwise the OP wouldn’t have had anything to complain about.
Probably not. But the more outright trolling only happened until after the comment triggered him. If there’s more subtle trolling that would have likely caused a loss, I don’t really see too much of a difference if you lose either way.
I know, I already said it’s not the one true way and people can do what feels right for their comfort level. I just don’t think calling out someone is that crazy and then to mock it as if it’s so crazy that people change from calling people out. It literally happens all the time. And like I said, I might not have used Sal’s phrasing, but all in all, it’s so mild. I mean the wording that Ayeziza seems to think is so bad is noob trap.
People like a lot of posts, that’s fine lol. It’s a forum with many different opinions. I myself think the 4th slide has some truth. I just think the other three are pretty dumb, especially without more context. Minky liked it, but they’ve also later clarified how it goes too far and isn’t quite accurate.
They weren’t even in a losing position at all though. They had 2 forts still up while the enemy’s core was open. I would hardly classify that as “losing”. I think if he had just shut his mouth and used pings or something else instead, the Hanzo probably could have been more helpful. He was helpful at some point because if he was trolling the whole game he couldn’t have gotten the stats he did by doing that all game which is why I suspect the OP is leaving out important details to make it seem like the Hanzo is a troll from the start.
In this case, with troll like this Hanzo, the meme fits and opening your mouth will hardly fix things, but instead make them worse. We see that evident here. Hanzo trolled more once the OP said something to him. Arrogant people can be reasoned with most of the time, but this is a troll. Immature trolls like this can’t be reasoned with and you will most likely make things worse by saying anything to them. However if you have any evidence that telling something to a troll (not just an arrogant player) made things better for you feel free to share. You say it happens all the time.
It is often about how you say something… In my experience lots of players seem to be very sensitive and stubborn at the same time, convinced to be always right and never do any mistakes. So best chances to have some postive impact with giving advice is when you are able to strike the right note and let iyour advice come across as a not binding suggestion.
However, I agree that calling someone out is worth a try but make sure you dont say it just for teachings sake and stop the debating soon enough before everyone is ending up flaming eachothers and getting distracted. I feel that in most cases I can have the most positive impact with good punctual pings rather than giving advice.
They weren’t at the moment, but if he continued to do so, it very likely might have led to a loss, especially if those mistakes happen late game.
LoL, it’s weird you say arrogant players can be reasoned with. You’re just reverse engineering to try to win a point. Trolls and arrogance go hand in hand. You don’t really know what will happen. All you can really do is offer the comment and hope they improve. You’re just arbitrarily defining what is a troll after the fact. Which is why the meme is dumb. Putting people on the spot does change games, it doesn’t always, but it can. It probably didn’t in this case, but I’m not convinced you would have won otherwise if the Hanzo would continue with that afking and mercing while the team needed help.
I think what Sal did to afk was dumb, I also don’t really think what Sal said was that outrageous. And if it was another player, it very well might have made a difference.
Point of asking you to pull those games is that you know trolls won’t change their behavior by saying something. After so many games, you know the type of player that will blow up and throw the match just because you said something.
You try to pretend like this hanzo was salvageable so I “called you” out on it because I don’t think saying something to that guy would result in a positive outcome. I don’t believe that people like this can be steered properly by saying something but I didn’t want to remove the opportunity to prove me wrong.
I just removed the “linguistic gymnastics” so that my message is more digestible for you.
Social agility, indeed.
I didn’t call you low IQ because you didn’t like the meme for portraying that you’re in the meme.
I called you low IQ due to the exchanges we’ve had in this thread. I think it’s dumb to make matters worse when you’re trying to win a game.
You seem to have this compulsion to say something even when it’s not productive. Maybe it’s like OCD where no matter how much it might backfire, you just HAVE to do it.
See my view was more nuanced, it wasn’t distilled down to an eye rolling meme. I can sympathize with Sal, yet say he could have improved the situation, while also telling him afking was dumb.
I just don’t think you’re being nearly as intelligent as you think you are by standing on some moral high ground of social agility by victim blaming someone who made a pretty harmless remark as if it’s their fault for daring to say something to someone who is throwing the game.
I think most anyone who would be in that situation would be rightfully frustrated and wouldn’t need the tone deafness of someone like you tone policing what is already a frustrating situation. Treat the bad man nicer so we won’t be a hostage to him! It’s pathetic really.
I never said you have to be nice to him. I don’t know how many times I have to tell you that my point was all about not making matters worse. That is all.
If you want to say something, deliver it in a way that doesn’t make matters worse. Why is that so difficult for you?
or maybe I’m tired of bearing witness to flame wars just because someone can’t keep their mouth shut. I don’t understand why that’s so difficult.
Meme must have hit its mark because you keep mentioning the meme in almost every one of your recent posts.
The problem with divine star build is that it works well with a dive comp, but you had 3 other mages on your team. Most of the game, I bet you were having problems keeping at least one of them alive, which was probably Hanzo because your Q had a longer CD. In fights, I bet you were always 1 second away from getting that needed Heal off to keep them alive because you didn’t go Evenhanded Blessings at 1. With a squishy team like that, in a 5-man setting, you need faster CDs and more healing power. This is why heroes like LiLi sucks in a 5 man setting. 4 second CDs on single target heal. Anduin’s Flash Heal is 5 seconds without Evenhanded Blessings. You can reduce Flash Heal CD to 3 seconds with that talent. The most you can reduce Divine Star to is 5 seconds, that’s only if it hits everyone after level 13 Speed of the Pious. CDs matter in ARAM the most, especially for healers healing 4 other people.
In the clip I put up I opened the stats screen to show Hanzo was 13 kills 20 assists and zero deaths.The score was around 34-11, we were stomping them but after every winning fight Hanzo kept AFKing or semi-AFK mercing with Kel’Thuzad.
I pick the same build every time because I know how to play it. We coulda destroyed their core if Hanzo wasn’t trolling us. It had nothing to do with my healing, you can just watch the clip and see the stats when I opened them if you are still confused.
I mean, I could try a diff build if I get Anduin again before Diablo 4 comes out. I’ve just had really good luck w/ that Anduin build and it is fun to run people down or escape w/ the movement speed in ARAM. As long as I can talent into the level 20 burn talent I’ll try whatever.
You said it not me. You’re not making any sense. You’re going back on what you said previously. You stated that arrogant people can be reasoned with and that you’ve seen it and then now you’re saying they can’t because they’re hand in hand with trolls.
Hanzo is not just an arrogant player, he’s a troll. Saying things (especially like what the OP said) to this type of player can only make the situation worse. It takes social agility to be able to differentiate the two and act on what you can perceive. You just showed you’re unable to do that and will go with your blanket idea because it works with some arrogant players.
With the way you speak to people I doubt it too. I mean simply pinging the core or something else other than what was said very well could have made things better. You’re just stuck in your own world where you feel like everything you disagree with needs to be pointed out. It will never make sense to you that saying nothing at times will bring out a better outcome than speaking up.
To call out or not to call out? Well, I’m going to call out that some of those people arguing this issue have taken a sharp turn into calling each other out on a personal level.
There is no perfect answer to the premise, calling someone out will have no effect on a player who has chat muted, alternatively, the player called out could throw harder, be more cooperative, or anything in between.
Either way, there is no need to make this minor issue personal.
There is merit to both sides of the argument but the spectrum of human behavior when it comes to hots games is just… too vast. I don’t think either side is definitive of what you should do all times, and it’s more dependent on the given situation the player finds themselves in. Majority of the time I personally don’t bother trying to help correct people’s mistakes, because chances are I might just land myself in a conflict with a person who has some unstable emotional issue that needs resolving. Other rare instances where I feel like the player is receptive to comments, like if they apologized or just went oops after mistakes, you’d assume they’re chill enough to hear what went wrong, on the off chance we might have a comeback.
So really both of you are correct, it just depends on the given situation.