About Leoric (beginner experience)

General Discussion
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I’ve mained vikings for a couple years now, Vikings is fun, but tiresome, the longer I play them the less fun I have, so I’ve been looking for an alternative hero to learn, I think i found him, leoric, now this might sound like a weird transition, but hear me out. Leoric fits with my playstyle of vikings in a lot of ways (and id recommend other viking players try him out he’s actually shockingly fun).

For starters, he can die to secure kills on 1-2 heroes that wouldn't have died otherwise. Although its not as good of a trade as 1 viking for 1 hero, its still IN SOME CASES a reasonable one, as you revive faster then most heroes, plus you can revive midfight, PLUS you can slow heroes down to save allies while having easier movement.

Another way leoric plays a lot like vikings is his general kit, he has a slow, alot of self sustain, and a mobility (which I would argue is one of the best mobilities in the game)

His "body block" at level 10 is essentially just a way less micro intensive viking surround, with much more utilities, entomb I've found has many interesting and fun uses, it can be a bootleg 4 second duration tassadar wall, it can be a way to safely E out, it can split the enemy team up, this one ability is what gives him the versatility i loved with vikings.

Now onto the flaws I've seen with leoric, similar to vikings, I'd argue his 16 is his main power spike, which is not necessarily a flaw, however, it does complicate things a little bit, having a lesser power spike at 20 is a bit of an issue, now im not saying leoric cant hold his own at 20, he's just a bit funky to play is all.

Entombs level 20 is weird, I don't know if its his best talent at 20, but imo its bad, it limits the usage of it, lowering the duration while only buffing it if your surrounding people with it.

He tends to die alot which pisses people off, saccing yourself for more then 1 kills secured that wouldnt otherwise be is a good thing imo, but people who randomly decide to check tab after we start to lose any level lead will see it and assume your throwing. Which makes them angry and throws both you and them out of concentration.

Id recommend trying him if you dont have an alternative and your sick of playing vikings constantly a lot of the skills translate, so hes great if you wanna have a more chill relaxed game while still improving your viking (sorta).

Oh and little neat thing, leoric can solo zagara really easily, like its not even difficult, you just dodge the first volley of banes, E, get close, activate if she places a tumor, Q W then autoattack spam and she dies pretty quick.

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I’m glad you’re enjoying Leoric, he’s a very versatile and fun bruiser. This though:

The level 20 silences all the enemies within the tomb, that’s what you take the upgrade for. :slight_smile:

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yes ik, silence is cool, but like, its only beneficial if your using it for trapping, walloffs and other uses are hurt by the 1 second less duration, which makes me less inclined to pick it because it makes it less versatile.

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I don’t always take the upgrade either, it depends what build I’ve taken and the team I’m agasint. Leoric has some nice level 20’s. His burning Despair is really potent if you’re against a less mobile melee heavy team, shroud of the dead king isn’t bad either.

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I have two favorite builds with Leoric:

A) Drain-build (W)
B) AA Build

And generally I only take Entomb on B, while with Drain-Build I prefer March of the King, because I take the upgraded W at 20. Currently he is my favorite bruiser, because he is really versatile and can fit into many comps, only his camp clear sucks (before 16 quest), but that’s fine for a hero, who excels at so many areas.

That’s one of the misunderstandings about Leoric, because he has best escape with E, but he tends to die a lot, because he can get easily trade with other heroes due to trait.

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exactly, his trait means 1 on 1 trades can be easily worth it, cuz in your dead state, you have a slow, a bunch of vision (and can go inside enemy forts) and you res faster then the other lad

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level 20 leoric is by far the most “idk what to pic” level 20 between all the heroes ive played
like level 20 entomb, or walk is amazing, the 50 armor + the passive damage is also really good, and even the protected is also soooo good, the cooldown is so low, it really shouldnt be.

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Entomb at lvl 20 is a game changer…It’s a HUGE spike. You have a darn silence now. A good entomb is cancerous, I’m sure you’ve felt it before… You just need to get good at landing them and it’s not easy to know when to do so.

He dies a lot when you’re bad with him and/or when you draft him poorly. IMO, he’s bad against bursty team.

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Depends how you play him, if you know what you’re doing he can be quite tanky for a bruiser, who is able to tank a good amount of damage, thanks to W and March of the King. And when he get his 30% extra life healing over time at 1, he has effective 130% life total, that’s a lot of sustain. And with access to unstoppable with his E, he has also a good tool against wombo combo ala Gazlowe. I like to tech Leoric against CC heavy team, because his W don’t get interrupted and E is an out-of-jail ability. Gazlowe never gets me into his heroic, because it’s too slow for me. :smiley:

Mephisto or The Butcher have basically the same option as Leroic. Are their heroic upgrade cancerous too? I don’t think so, because all this abilitys are skillshots and can be solved by proper positioning, displacement (BW, Stukov) or just by Deathwing.

Sometimes you don’t mind to die, if you can get a trade with other enemy hero, because you will always resurrect before and you don’t have to walk the whole path to the scene of action.

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Very much similar to vikings in fights, ill sac one or 2 vikings fending off the enemy team or doing other stuff while i jump 1 low hp hero hearthing. Concepts translate quite well between the two heroes which is nice cuz I hate practicing vikings 24/7, they are fun when I have concentration, but y’know 7th game of the day im racking up 5 deaths by the end and I barely did anything to benefit the team.

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Welcome to the Leo club! Leo has some of the best voice lines (clicking multiple times) and best dance moves. MJ’s Thriller anyone?

In the professional scene, entomb level 20 is arguably one of the most dangerous talent of any hero in the game. It’s an auto pick without fail.

In pleb-land (the rank im in), reaction times from the team aren’t as tight as the pros so that extra second us arguably more valuable.

Pesonally, I pick silence if the enemy team has heroes that can escape (e.g. falstad, genji etc).

With any spare opportunity i get, i pick Burning Despair. What’s not to like about it? You become Destroyer form Deathwing with 40 armour for you ENTIRE health bar AND you receive healing from friends. That talent is crazy.

Imo he starts getting strong at 13. Spectral Leech (AAs deal % damage and heal) used to be a level 20 talent just to put things into perspective.

He shouldn’t be dying any more often than a typical bruiser. His survivability is great. As Yusuke said, his ghost walk can get you out of so much.

For leo to work, you need to land his spooky hand. If you miss, you cant engage. It’s that simple. Once it expires, look for an exit strategy.

It’s not like you try to die with Junkrat to get trait value so don’t try with Leo.

On a side note, Leo’s rework was perhaps one of the best they’ve done. He has one of the coolest AA animations (They’ve done a good job of making his hammer look heavy), and the fact that a unique AA playstyle was created to reflect his animations is a testament to that.

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If you don’t AA cancel as Leoric, you’re missing out.
05h33m59s

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That’s what you want to use it for. It usually secures a kill unless you have an Anduin or Lucio outside of it. It’s one of the best talents in the game.

Maybe you’ve never been in one. But you usually don’t live to get out. And on top of that, you can also use it to auto cancel abilities.

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And here is why I don’t understand why so few players value the power of The Butcher, who has basically a better single target Entomb on 10 and aoe entomb on 20. Sure he’s weak without stacks, but he is still able to lockdown a hero and can be still dangerous with stacks. I’ve said once, but The Butcher would be broken in other mobas as someone who has crazy scaling potencial and cc. And Lamp is comparable to Entomb.

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You pick Leoric when potatoes show themselves in pick phase: first pick potatoebutcher/potatoenova/potatoedeathwing/etc. You pick him to AMove in lane just in case the enemy team is a full potatoe team!

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But it has such a short CD it can be used for many other things, the shorter duration discourages that which is why I don’t like to pick it, its not fun imo, it might be inherently better idk, but its just not a fun talent to me personally, and additionally takes away the versatility of the talent for a silence which i dont think is a great trade.

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Yes, but it also easy to miss and easy to dodge. It’s basically useless against any mobile hero before 20. And since it’s not an real obstacle like Hogger’s D… make it even worse lol. Hogger just spins through it.

But it’s easier to get value of Entomb than March of the King… I would only consider the latter against fatties/melee heavy team and also when Entomb don’t synergies with your team like an AA based team with low aoe.

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well i like entomb better, I hate march of the king, I just dont like entombs 20, 1 duration decrease for a silence is not a tradeoff I think is worth it when compared to his other level 20’s with no drawback and a lot of upside

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I feel the silence is more than worth losing 1 second. It’s an AoE silence. Once you have it, you can cancel/interrupt pretty much anything. Everything else at 20, the enemy can just walk away from. (Plus, I don’t think they’re ever giving us a 4 second AoE silence on any bruiser.)

Plus, past lvl 20, you can usually decide the outcome of the game in a single fight. So having less uptime to use it as an obstacle becomes irrelevant.

But to each his own I guess.

Well we already know that “Dread March” is worse. So that leaves “Burning Despair” or “Shroud of the Black King”

Burning despair is worse because your enemy can just walk away from it, and it depends on you landing your W, during which your move speed is reduced by 20%. When you get someone with “Buried alive”, they are stuck there, period. But any kind of mobility gets around Burning Despair, including passive move speed. It only works if the enemy insists on staying near you. Hell, you can get around it even without mobility. So when you say his other Lvl 20 have no drawbacks, this one definitely has one.

The armor might seem like it will help keep you alive better than Entomb, but Buried alive Silences them, so they cannot hit you with any abilities. That usually saves you from way more damage than the armor would. Instead of reducing Valla’s W and E by 40%, you just don’t take it at all.

As for “Shroud of the dead King”. It allows you to pretend to be Varian for 3 seconds. It gives you nothing but damage mitigation, which I find inferior to an AoE silence in every way. It does one thing. Buried alive does a lot of things.

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Buried Alive is not always the pick, but it’s effective against highly mobile and squishy heroes. Orphea, Li-Ming, Falstad, Genji, Tracer, Lunara, Samuro and much more.

Edit: Every of his lvl 20 are good, depending on your build.

I’ve soloed Tychus with Entomb+ AA build + Shroud of the dead King.
I used to take Shroud even when it was on a 60s CD. Now, it’s at 30s.

Burning Despair is currently the best in general.

I wouldn’t recommend Death March, but in some niche scenarios, it can be worth it.

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