…or not
this is a card game the fact they could have a card in their hand doesnt mean they have it at all times
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Not quite. Card RNG in a balanced game more or less cancels out. Card RNG in a game with poor balance (which I would argue Zephyr contributes to) degenerates the game into a slot machine/coin flip simulator. It is valid to complain about draw RNG when the power levels of cards are not distributed well, though you are right that it is a secondary effect.
I haven’t had a huge problem with it, personally. But I’ll probably craft it, not least because it sounds like it is in line for a HOFing.
Nerfing seems difficult. Either highland from the start (meh, kills bombs as a counter), or restricting to class (meh, kind of ruins the card). Mana cost increase could limit the pool.
If I had to shoot for a nerf, I’d make it a deathrattle (as a favor to Rogue) or make it a dormant 0/1 so you can’t bounce it). The discover mechanic can’t currently trigger on your opponents turn tho, so don’t think the former would work.
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Zephyr is a trainer card pure and simple . Don’t know what to do I will show how to do it.
So will any decent card.
You cant avoid everything. Tough. The problem you’re trying to solve is “what wrecks me the most” and “does my opponent have lethal if x”
Did zeph clear your board? Okay. Thats fine. You expect it if you have any brains and are ahead of an opponent running him.
Being “all in one” is kind of stretching it. He can be all sorts of cards. But the conditions that dictate which he WILL be are entirely dictated by you and your opponent. Puzzlebox of yogg saron can ALSO be all those thing. Zephyrs gives you the agency to dictate which one.
Because zephyes will NEVER give you a fireball just because. Even if, ultimately, that would win you the game a turn later. He only gives you things for right just now, and thats an entirely controlled effect which you can exercise agency over.
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Except zephyrs makes up for your incompetence as ive had many opponents not setting him up right yet still flip the state of the game
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Yep trainer card for beginners.
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Is there any digital CCG type of game where you can? Not sure what is meant by this.
But you don’t always draw Zephyrs itself, and even if you do, sometimes not even that’s enough.
But they do because that’s how the game works. You can’t blame Zephrys for this.
Don’t compare the two because their preconditions are completely different, and also, Zephrys is not a sure win as well. Yogg’s only requirement was to run some spells, and not to restrict every card’s number to 1, which is arguably a bigger disadvantage, especially when you are facing aggro.
I think the Highlander mechanic is a great design, and opens up to another way of playing the game for those who seek it (it’s also nostalgic for Reno fans but I guess you are not one). I am especially happy that it ended up being a viable option on ladder, as its competitiveness was doubtful at first, and exactly because Bomb Warrior seemed to perfectly counter it.
You are trying to blame a common aspect of the game on Zephrys, whereas almost every deck works the same way if you look at them closely. Some cards win you the game, and Zephrys does this more often for a price.
There are many annoying RNG factors in this game, and for me, drawing is the least annoying one.
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Well not every deck works this way because every class has limits as to the pool of cards available. Therefore, if you’re facing a wide board and you’re rogue, you won’t be able to clear it. Or if you have a wide board and you’re hunter, you won’t be able to bloodlust or savage roar. Zephrys disrupts that balance. And its ensured disruption produces game-determinative outcomes that boil down to who drew Zephyrs.
Card games like MTG allow you to interact on your opponent’s turn.
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I don’t mind it because I see a lot of players just slam it down whenever instead of holding it for something. Has some level of decision making behind it that I think is very health but I can understand it’s potential being too strong. Seems a little crazy that it’s snugly fitting into murloc paladin and tempo rogue decks as a solid last ditch find a solution maybe it should require cards in the deck at least.
The only thing I think zeph shows is how they probably should have sent roar to the hall already.
Man, playing wild really changes your perspective. There are so many way more broken cards there that I barely see any problem with any standard card.
The only exception being prismatic lens. It’s on the wild level of dumb design.
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zephyr cant read your hand so it cant tell you put the player on lethal range
Yes he is very controlled,no rng at all. And he is technically the same as the single card that your opponent did pick but then you say this
“But the conditions that dictate which he WILL be are entirely dictated by you and your opponent”
Like I don’t even know what to make of this,its pretty obvious. If I go wide he will be flamestrike and if I make a big guy he will be sw death.
I don’t see how this is supposed to be a good thing,it is exactly this that is the problem imo.
The fact that I can control if he gets flamestrike or sw death against my board doesn’t make it any easier for me,its a choice between 2 bad things.
Most cards they have single purpose,some cards have more purpose and good players can use cards for purpose that is not directly obvious but this card takes it to a whole new level. it always has puspose no matter the boardstate, behind or ahead,threathening lethal or facing lethal,this card has the best answer in the classic set.
If there was a deck of 30 0 cost zephyr spells (this maybe could make for a fun brawl one day,it will be interesting to see how the tempo develops between 2 decks both having the best answers) then that deck would always win,there would be no way to counter it because it will always have the perfect answer or set up. Zephyr is a card that goes against the very core of card games.
he is a sort of joker,a card only seen in childrens card games.
“…its a choice between two bad things”
Yeah. And you get to pick which is least detrimental to your deck.
Tempo decks deal with THAT decision tree every game. If they play too much out, they tank on wipes. If they dont, they kill too slow and give the control too much time to draw into their strengths.
You will always have bad choices to make. Every game. Every opponent. You’re making the best choice you can based on what you can do now, and whats coming later.
And if you are able to pressure a highlander deck enough that zeph is a clear…thats good. He wasnt lethal, and those decks like using him that way. Hes one of their win conditions. There are plenty of times that forcing them to use him as removal is game winning.
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By “the same way” was meant that nearly every deck has a sort of win-condition that’s usually based on drawing 1 card. This sort of RNG factor is nothing new to the game.
Yes, but it’s not an auto-win card by any means. It only gives you a considerable push and sometimes even wins you the game per Bloodlust or Fireball, but for that to happen you have to set up the necessary preconditions for it, which, in this case, means having a wide board or your opponent on low health.
Good to know.
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Setting up the conditions is not a very impressive feat considering that Zephyrs is adaptive - the conditions are always right. His power level is insane (very few cards "sometimes even wins you the game) considering his flexibility, which is the greatest of any card ever printed. He’s great on turn 2, he’s great on turn 10, and that can’t be said of any other 2 mana 3/2.
The fair thing about Zephrys is that he can only do one thing of those:
Clear board, buff board, heal, develop board, develop hand, …
Not everything like certain other cards that start with s and z respectively.
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I think Zephrys might now be the strongest card in the game at this point.
When he is put in tempo decks like rogue and Paladin, that tells you something.
Cross posting this as it’s more appropriate in this thread:
Zephyrs is a terrible card overall. It goes against most principles of creating a fun game, for example:
Principle 1. All players understand the rules completely and agree to play by them.
Zephyrs fails this principle because it never defines what is meant by a “perfect” card. Most people have some idea what this should mean, but at best it’s a vague concept. Furthermore, they should use the word “discover” not “wish” in the card text. They can add flavor text as in MTG if they wish to convey a theme.
To expand on this point, I wanted to give a concrete example of a combo I think Zephyrs should enable, a turn 4 otk:
- Play knife juggler
- Play Zephyrs
- Get Shadowstep.
- Repeat 2. And 3. Using Shadowstep until opponent dies.
Granted most people night not be able to play this 30 times or more required to kill your opponent due to logistics, but in theory it is a turn 4 otk.
Blizzard confirmed this would not be allowed with Zephyrs, which calls into question, what do they mean by perfect card?
Principle 2. By and large, skill should be rewarded the most in the long run, averaged over many games, not luck or a game mechanic.
This is more a game design choice. But to give a concrete example why it’s important consider snakes and ladders, the children’s game. This is one that rewards luck, and we all know how fun that is.
Here, again, Zephyrs fails this basic principle as highlander decks lean so hard on this one card to give them some much needed consistency they lose by being highlanders. However, this has the distinct drawback of making every game feel the same where Zephyrs turns the game in their favor by the simple virtue of drawing him, not rewarding skill, but simply if he is drawn soon enough.
did the forum eat my post ? this never happened since we swtiched forums
ehh they said on release zephyr wont give you any bounce cards as far as i know nobody complained about it
why do you think they should change this ?