Draw RNG affect every single deck, in every single card game. Therefore its a non-issue.
Meaning NO RNG.
It DOES when you use draw RNG as your main argument. As I said, thats simply the nature of the beast in card games, so cannot be used if you expect to be taken seriously. Playing a card game and complaining about draw rng is the contradiction here!
E: My point is, if you want to be taken seriously, dont use RNG as your benchmark for the most CONSISTENT card ever printed. Use the consistency instead, 'cos thats the issue.
You’re reframing the argument and reading out of context. I never said RNG in a card game is unacceptable. I said that zephyrs exacerbates the draw RNG aspect. That is a problem. That’s exactly the reason why Blizzard nerfed LPG—Too impactful and outcome determinative where games hinge on who draws it first. The same principle applies to Zephyrs. For the amount of impact it provides, games hinge on who drew their zephyrs. That’s not a good form of design because it literally can turn, what would have been otherwise good games, into a basic coin flip. That’s not how good card games are designed.
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And as I said, draw RNG needs to be excluded from the discussion. It affects every deck, in every card game. Fact.
You cant argue RNG as being the issue with Zeph in any way, shape, or form and expect to be take seriously when he is one of the most consistent cards ever made. Consistency is the ABSENCE of RNG. He doesnt exacerbate any RNG, he removes it from the equation entirely (most of the time) when played right. Sure, you might need to tempo him out occasionally and get a piss poor “wish” but, for the most part, if you associate RNG and Zeph thenyoure doin something REALLY wrong!
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bowser, I’m going try this one more time. Instead of reading what you want to see. Try reading what is written and understand it.
I am not saying Zephyrs introduces more randomness into the game. I am saying it makes the effect of randomness worse. LPG did the same thing. It didn’t add more randomness. It made the effect of randomness worse. Imagine both players with the IWIN card where once draw, the player drawing it instantly wins. The chances of drawing that card is fair for both players. But, the impactful effect of that card disproportionately skews the outcome of the game entirely to whoever draws it first. That makes the effect of random card draw even worse had that IWIN card never existed. That’s the argument.
I have read what you are saying, but you gotta drop the luck of the draw thing and let it go. Thats simply the nature of card games, and you keep going back to it.
Its not the randomness that makes Zeph problematic, but the absence of it that does - aka consistency.
E: We are on the same side in our views on the card, I just think you are taking the wrong approach when you use RNG as your main argument for a card that is all but absent of it!
For comity sake, our views land on the same ground. Zephyrs does too much for too little. How the argument is framed doesn’t matter from either vantage point. To me, it’s like arguing over the glass half empty or half full.
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The glass is always half empty, it cant be half full because I have already drank half of it 
Seriously (but not really) a glass is half empty if it starts full and you drink half of it. Its half full if you fill it from empty to the 50% mark.
I need help!!!
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If I could change one thing with Zephrys it would be the text, instead of no copies in your deck I would like it to read no copies in your starting deck. Makes the card unique to singleton decks. Since the cost of the card should be consistency. I do think pushing singleton decks and adding support for them is good for the game and its diversity.
In order to keep Highlander decks a thing they need to release cards like this or keep releasing some cards that goes into the archetypes each expansion in order for there to be more of them and make the Highlander decks less reliant on a single card or two for the payoff.
If there was a good support for Highlander decks there wouldnt be a need for cards like this.
The winrates of Highlander decks like to disagree on this.
Also it requires setup its not like you get five minions on board and can draw a Savage Roar/Bloodlust and finish someone off. If you lose the board and they have 4+ minions on board at the start of their turn than well your already playing a losing game Zephrys was merly the final nail in the coffin.
Its not really, tell me how many singleton decks have you seen in this game that doesnt have Zephyrs or Reno. And if the cost is just an illusion why dont you play singleton decks every meta and why isnt the meta made up by a mix. The answer is obvious but still to you that think the cost is just an illusion it shouldnt be a difference.
I wonder if Zeph is smart enough to recognize mana-cheat incoming.
Seriously, Zeph should be coded in a way to offer mana-cheat disruption if in any way it’s avail, since that strat is sooo overseen in Wild.
Example: Your opponent is priest, it’s turn 5, they have their 2/6 taunt deathrattle kill opponent minion. Does Zeph offer damage based removal to beef up your opponent’s res pool, or would Zeph be smart enough to offer Poly/Hex/Devo to remove that 2/6 deathrattle from that Priest’s repeating res pool? Make sense?
Example 2: Your opponent is Warlock. It’s turn 4, your opponent has an empty board and a full hand. Does Zeph offer some midrange minion, say 5 cost? Or does Zeph recognize your opponent is playing bloomlock manacheat and therefore would offer the one obvious counerplay……Counterspell for their Circle/Implosion/Scheme? Make sense?
Zeph has to ‘get smarter’ against mana-cheat. That’s where the card I see could fail if it’s not able to recognize like the most popular strat in Wild outside of aggro and that’s mana-cheat midgame that is spell based.
TLDR Zeph should offer counterspell and Poly/Hex/Devo a lot more often since those cards are like some of the only non-aggro counters to res/mana cheat turns.
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As long as there’s agreement that there’s still water in the cup, then we’re cool.
Joking aside, I do think the technical execution of zephyrs is marvelous. They should have added a chance for it to fizzle entirely. That would make things more interesting.
I agree, and its my complaint as I said. Hes simply too consistent imo, but thats his “appeal” as well (for now anyway. I have little doubt the novelty will wear of pretty quickly, and sounds like you agree with that comment 
) and what hes designed to do.
At least we can both look back at this thread in a few months and compare it to the complaints to see how right (or wrong) we were in our assessment.
It’s because not all expansions support highlander decks. You have to evaluate things in context. Back in highlander priest, the requirement was indeed illusory. Same with the current meta now. Hunter and Mage give up little to run Highlander because the past five expansions have allowed a rich card base to obviate the need for duplicates. Had SoU been the first expansion of the year, I would agree that the choice of going Highlander would be more costly.
There’s a semi viable highlander deck for every single class even when they don’t have the other highlander class card just because of zeph. There’s highlander Rogue, quest shaman, even in quest druid now without Elise. At first it was fun, now it’s just getting old.
Ha ha yes this. The developers are very excited about this card more from a technical point of vieuw then from a gameplay point of vieuw.
It doesn’t bode well for future.
Another new card in meta that will get nerfed way way before the end of its supposed 2 year life.
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These arguements really irritate me.
"You cant play around him "
Yes you can. You know exactly as much as your opponent does regarding what he will pull. You can clearly see, before their turn, what is at stake and where. Board full? Do the math, will savage roar be lethal. Congratulations, you just figured out what needs to be done.
He is no different than any other lethal or answer card in the game. You can correctly evaluate what he will do if they play him and decide what action to take based on that.
If your facing a highlander hunter you know that being at 8 health means zeph can pull lethal. Same as if you faced a mage…you know youre sitting in the top deck danger zone.
His consistency is what makes that possible.
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Well.
Luna’s pocket galaxy was nerf exactly because of that.
Draw RNG.
In fact at any cost lower than 7 it would still a staple not because of being a unbeatable card(wasn’t even at 5).
But because it affects how the game is played from said point.
The card is overcosted because it should not even exist as it is in first place.
It turns out that the nature of your cards affects their relationship with draw RNG and know how much you want your game to be affected by draw is a reasonable question to make when designing a card game.
But 5 Mana do nothing still a hell of a tempo loss that was only easy allowed because the meta was slowed down by CW.
It wasn’t unfair at all.
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Imagine Pirate Warrior still in Standard. I bet they’d have to make LPG’s cost 1 mana in order to see play.
Zephrys breaks class identity which just feels bad from a flavor perspective, and having to account for unknown cards that normally aren’t available to the class you are facing is just annoying.
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Lost against this card a few times but can see how it can be used to balance against other “I win” cards such as Zul’jin, Dr Boom, Angler murloc, Power of Creation, quest druid, etc.
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Ok so we play like
“well I cant go wide on board cause opponent can have zephys and get flamestrike”
“well I cant leave my opponent with big board because he can have zephyr and get bloodlust or roar”
“well I cant put up this taunt to defend myself because my opponent can have zephyr and get black knight”
“well I cant put my opponent into lethal range for next turn because he can have zephyr and heal for 8”
He is very different from being any other lethal or answer cards,he is all in one!
You can not play around answer or lethal A,because then he will give you answer or lethal B. The card actually adepts to you anticipating the card. Ok I trade my wide board and get big guy,screw sw death. Ok I trade my big guy and go wide,screw flamestrike. Like how can you say its similar to any other card? no its not.
He will get anormous value in about any possible situation.
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