I have a question that goes back to my earlier post about Wild.
I lose almost every match at diamond against Warlock and no small amount to Priest.
Both decks pull out ridiculous plays, and yet I have never seen a post asking that they be nerfed in any way.
Why not? And, If you nerf mage, exactly what does that accomplish beyond making another class the top deck? From my admittedly amateur view, every class in Wild is broken. I fail to see why mage is singled out as being oppressive or busted, when it seems all of them are. My mage deck gets creamed by Warlock.
If a deck has a hard counter then it hardly seems busted to me.
As Iāve said, I also lose to Priest quite a bit although sometimes I draw well and kill them very quickly.
Seems about 50/50 to me so I still donāt see anything oppressive. I also regularly lose to Quest Mage.
I cannot speak for Highlander or Quest having yet to play them in Wild, but I simply donāt see Secret Mage as being particularly broken when three other decks can reliably beat it.
Again, perhaps my lack of skill is what makes some of this possible but it cannot be responsible for all, can it?
Most people want the quest mage archetype to be nerfed, not secret mage.
I am mostly for a vargoth-quest interaction nerf because 3 consecutive turns if just ****ing stupid.
Secret mage is a tier 1 deck that beats almost everything except warlock. Isnāt it hypocritical to ask for nerfs on the only deck that counters it ?
You donāt see anything āāoppressiveāā because you are playing an oppressive deck yourself and most people are forced into playing either mage or warlock so they donāt auto lose to the aggro secret mage.
Iām not asking for nerfs. Quite the contrary. I am still wondering why anything should be nerfed. i saw a great many posts saying secret mage was āoppressiveā and ābustedā and having played it that doesnāt really seem true to me.
I cannot craft the top highlander and quest decks in Wild as I donāt have the neutral Legendaries, so I will have to take word that those are out of control, but I havenāt seen the evidence that shows Secret mage is.
Secret mage is an oppressive deck. Itās insanely strong against everything except cubelock.
Thatās the main reason cubelock is rising in popularity, itās insanely good against aggro but very weak to priest if you canāt get the early doomguard combo kill.
Fair enough. But if a deck has a hard counter, can it be called busted?
Of course, why not ?
It beats everything in the game consistently except for one archetype. The reason cubelock is so good against secret mage is because it uses the mageās own secrets against them and has the ability to heal and protect their face from damage, which counters secret mageās plan, to throw everything at face.
Youāre forced to play cubelock if you want to consistently beat secret mage, isnāt it proof that the deck is too good ?
Well I am struggling here trying to figure out the criteria for busted vs balanced. In Wild that seems impossible imo. I think every deck should have one hard counter and then the game would be balanced in my eyes. Rock paper scissors. Or, at least that is how I have always understood the game to be.
I also have always thought that wild was supposed to be busted hence why I never played it until now.
Oh, the complaints exist, itās just that you donāt get as many for Warlock and Priest as you used to.
Whatās the most ācancerousā Warlock deck right now? Darkest Hour, which can create an unbeatable board as early as turn 5, plus prevent opponents from using any removal, creating an absolute checkmate. Yet itās inconsistent, often doesnāt get its combo, and there are rare situations where the aggro decks currently around can actually bring its health low enough that it canāt play its combo even when it has the god hand.
For Priest, the two most complained about decks have been Rezz Priest and Razakus. Now, Rezz Priest not only lost its luster after the Barnes nerf, but it also canāt kill before turn ~9ish, which means combo decks roll over it, and aggro has either won or run out of fuel already. Thereās also Razakus, which acts as an anti-aggro deck with great heals, clearing, and can stall until it hits its late game spike where it can even challenge a Rezz Priest in a value game ā but needs to actually get there, which it can against aggro, but not always against combo.
The meta right now revolves a lot around turn 6. A lot of aggro decks can have you dead by 5 or 6, and the fastest combo decks can usually go off around 6 or 7 where they either kill you or set up for killing you the following turn. Any deck that aims for a turn 9 or later win is vulnerable both to combo decks that can OTK by 6, or aggro which aims for the turn 6 kill.
Right now, Priest simply doesnāt have a turn 6 kill type deck, and Warlockās is a 50/50 whether it goes off or not, so thereās fewer complaints about either those decks. This is compared to Mage who can not only kill on 6 but also has class tools that can stall for later if necessary, and Mech decks which can put 20+ damage on board by turn 3 (not an exaggeration:
https://imgur.com/a/F6zDhVE). Sure, there will be complaints about any deck, but theyāre second fiddle compared to the current decks going around.
Ok, well this helps. Iām still not sure that any deck needs nerfs in Wild since cards constantly being added changes the power levels but I understand better now how some of the decks operate.
Maybe you should consider the balance changes that were already introduced to Wild, the fact itās a real format that people play, and that going with the braindead notion of āWild is wildā will result in that format dying?
You really donāt understand the core issues.
HS is not MtG.
Secret mage is by far the best aggro deck out there.
Why play any other type of aggro deck when secret mage is far superior ? I think this is proof the deck is not balanced.
But as I said, I donāt mind secret mage too much. I rather play vs that than a 3 turns Quest mage.
Your tone seems very pointed. Perhaps you could step back and take a breath before replying? I am trying to learn, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Strong decks exist, but itās the relative power to each other and the overall available counters that really determine its level for nerfs.
Quest Mage has very little counters. 3 straight turns with 30-60 damage potential and chance to respond. Only counter is druid or mirror matchups. Darkest Hour is a turn 6 dump 40 mana and only loses to hard mulligan poison seeds. No counter play, just draw and win or choke and lose. Kaelthas Druid is a turn 6/7, draw 15 cards, deal 10 damage, gain 5 armor, summon two 5/5s, push towards you win condition. Almost no counter, massive value for play, does well against many matchups, requires no skill.
Essentially if you are pumping too high relative value and thereās little to no counter, it needs a nerf. This is why I argue that Secret Mage and Even Shaman are fine, because there quite a number of decks that hit it hard.
But a 30-40 mana value drop on turn 6 or a 60 damage 3 turn combo is retarded. This is how you determine nerfs for Wild.
Ok so enlighten me about what is is that players want. If every deck has a counter, then that seems as balanced as Wild could probably hope to ever be.
What I am hearing is players wanting a second version of Standard.
Youāve been asking the same questions a few times, now.
And my patience has run dry.
Mostly due to the typical lack of understanding being wielded with pride, on these forums.
I donāt see myself as having pride in anything with regards to the questions I am asking. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to understand.
Once again, I just want the quest interaction with Vargoth to be changed because that punishes anything that has a slower game plan.
I donāt care about the rest.
ā¦that is what I meant, though.
Many do, or did.
And Iām not talking about asking questions, but rather the same statements being used with little to no consideration. And being presented as intellectual ācoup de grasā.
āWild is wildā and Rock Paper Scissors are not arguments or concepts that I intend to invest time in thoroughly debunking.
I changed the header to more accurately reflect my confusion.
And i still do not understand. You said Secret Mage is the best aggro deck.
So, since it is, it should be nerfed, so that some other class can then be best?
Iām not sure Iām right, but that seems a bit like like class bias.
I just said secret mage is oppressive. I never said it should be nerfed. I only want the quest to be nerfed. Specifically the Vargoth interaction, the other versions are very powerful but fine,