Okay! Whose idea was it to give C’thun, a guy who can potentially gain infinite armor self heal and single target removal late game 80 health?
as he requires time to stack to reach any numbers even potentially relevant, and is hard countered by any sort of removal, thats why
(its 80 hp btw, still beating him with that, as Dr Boom)
“I had a 60% winrate and nerf made it not so anymore”
Yeah I wonder why
They have data on this. When a character is so oppressive few other of their pre-built decks get played because that one is too much of a free-win to play, that is problematic. He was already nerfed to 25 health while others got buffed, that should have been a sign of how massive the issue was, for those who dont see it.
if you consider the buffs/nerfs as percentage adjustments trying to approach the all mighty 50/50 in a match up. this kind of math is nit-picking and often only looks at vacuum stats (win/loss, number of turns) not the play patterns, or the reasons
the starting HP pool for each hero was determined based on their expected win/loss. I will be considering 35 to be the “average” because that is what the majority received, the other option is to consider 30 to be the average, but everything else expected to be worse then Xyrella, or 40 to be the average though that does not follow.
- a hero that received 30 was expected to perform better then those how received 35 or 40: Xyrella (this is a control deck but really the presumption is that starting with too much might put her too close to her goal especially where she is the only hero with a real alternate win condition, and most of her cards are “impactful” to either her win condition or the board)
- hero that received 40 was expected to perform worse then a hero that received 35 or 30: Illidan, Leeroy, Finley
- the only hero to receive 45 was Dr. Boom who was expected at release to perform the worst (he is highly board centrist with very specific comeback opportunities)
*a hero that received 35 HP was expected to perform to the average, or “I don’t know”
so when they changed the starting health they were addressing the non-mirror (because by logic for pre-built decks the mirror will always be 50% win-rate), but with regards to a base line so Kael’Thas, and Patches are probably close all ready, and the changes made to health as % deviations on the win-rate
35->30 or 35->40 being about 14-15% deviation, so a 35->25 is a 28-30% deviation (might indicate an actual 80% initial winrate of Arfus in non-mirror matchups rather then the reported 70-73%)
then in the second pass consider the deviations separately, especially if these are being measured by spread sheet of match-up; so 30->27 is a 10% deviation and 25->20 is a 20% deviation, though 40->80 is a 100% increase, so maybe C’Thun is just too much of an unknown.
the biggest issue is that all of these decks besides Illidan, Lich King being Highlander, and hyper specific entails that they are very polarizing purely based on Draw, and then when the Highlander rule is evaluated depends on the recency of it (“started with”, vs “currently has”) though this only applies to facing Dr. Boom.
these need changes besides just health or deletion
Arfus: the hero power needs to maybe only reduce each card by (1), not reduce less then (1), or the most drastic “reduces that many cards by (1) for this turn” (this would probably be nearly deleting the hero) and the Passive maybe random runes instead of consistent, or make him play 1 of each rune to get a trigger, the Snake even if it was 1 in 5 would still be too consistent, and negates the intention behind the health changes, also “MAW AND PAW” is in the deck
C’Thun: the hero power, most of the “Followers of C’Thun” are 5 or more mana with a 1 mana hero power results in many late turns with 2-4 mana doing nothing, and then C’Thun only really makes stuff with very limited targeted removal, the number of times with Plague of Flames is the only viable answer to Maw And Paw if Arfus keeps clearing the tokens, or allow Arfus to get more HP then C’Thun’s starting HP when a random Blade of C’Thun can finally answer it. The Hero power needs to like reduce the cost by (1), cost (0), or be like “(1) Choose one - Discover a follower of C’Thun; spend the rest of your mana deal that much damage split among all enemies” and please just remove Glow Fly Swarm it is either “hold to be better then 5 mana summon 2x 2/2” or just “minus 1 hand slot”
Xyrella: update her passive to at the very least be “heal to full to win the game” so that Arfus with the Snake does not crush her hopes and dreams.
and your final bullet points are misinformation:
As a reminder, we intend to do Hero Health adjustments like these as needed, instead of modifying the parts of these heroes that are the problems.
Please note: due to the nature of weekly balance updates that only affect health, and not actual mechanics we won’t be expanding dust refunds in case we accidentally delete Arfus from the mode and might have to refund the bundles we sold.
Puuh.
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arfus is too strong
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Nerfs weekly for a mode that is on for a month is WAY too slow
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I dont have Arfus and crafting it for this only - no
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Health changes are so drastic that testing wasnt really done. Man
Cthun 35->80 thats huge both % or absolute change
Arfus 35->20 same thats huge % or absolute change. -
Not sure what happens to bonus stars when its pretty hard to climb after certain point due 1st point
2 Likes
Unacceptable.
Giving cthun 80 hp changes little to nothing, when his cards are anti temp and C’thun itself is vulnerable to counterplay. And ritual buff cthun is also very slow compared to other twist heros.
I want cthun’s hp back to 35 or 30 hp, but makes his hero power discover follower of cthun and reduced the cost of all followers in your and by 1.
give: If you used 10 times, add cthun into your hand, to your hero power or buff doomcaller: give your cthun +2/+2/ shuffle a copy of it into your hand (whereever it is)
Make his passive also stronger so that killing any 2 minions or if a friendly minion die give cthun +1/+1
Lastly, replace bad cards with good ones and give cthun good removal. Token based dont work.
3 Likes
For al akir, replace Alai’r with Pyros.
Glad C’thun is viable now, but the mirror matches are excruciating.
1 Like
Make cthun unable to be discarded at hand, mind controlled, “removed from game” or any other effect that removes ALL interactions from Cthuns deck, as currently there is far too many of the decks that can just hard counter Cthun with a single card, making it absolutely pointless to play him
And for the love of god, remove Mutanus from any of the decks he is in. Who thought it was a good idea to put him in decks where extremely specific combos is required to even function???
1 Like
if C’Thun health was 200, still useless
Mutanus and Patchwerks works same way. They makes Doomcaller absolutely useless.
Even if Cthun did die, you wont have reliable means of drawing him before your opponent kills you.
Yeah I know, thats why I mentioned “discard”, pretty sure I covered all the means there, even if I didnt name each one, as the effect is what matters here.
The N’zoth, the Corruptor twist hero power Rise Again is not working correctly. It says “Summon a 1/1 copy of the last Deathrattle minion you played.” But if the last Deathrattle card, not minion, that you played was the Rogue weapon Necrium Blade, it will give you a 1/2 copy of the weapon instead of a 1/1 copy of the last minion you played.
1 Like
I played a total of 17 games today and only won 4 of them. This is frustrating. We are just a stepping stone to the advancement of people who spent money on this game, so I deleted the game. You must understand that you cannot enjoy the game without spending money. Or become a slave to the system. money money money
Great job balancing the game! Who came up with the brilliant idea of making a class with 100% RNG? Only Blizzard could create such a fun hero, you guys are amazing. Keep up the wonderful work, and the number of Hearthstone players will surely keep growing. much fun such wow
It helps if you identify what you’re actually talking about. Are you angry about Arfus being strong? C’thun being bad? Some other deck entirely?What?
Whoever had a hand in any part of twists needs to lose their job. Majority of these issues should have been a day 1/2 fix or arfus should’ve been disabled and refunded. Been 17 days and all you guys have done is slap a band-aid a sinking boat with 90% useless health adjustments. Insane yall haven’t even fixed a gamebreaking bug like arfus not discovering paladin or shaman excavated. Why even release this if you had no intention of balancing or putting effort into it? Might aswell scrap the mode if you’re not going to maintain it. Was so excited for this mode for a month, and after playing arfus mode it helped me lose interest in this game lol. Thank you for helping me break my addiction by being lazy and incompetent
3 Likes
Nerf excavate arfus!
Most toxic deck
1 Like
Weird patch, have to download 9gb with crap speed of net(