What Twist Should Be

Although I’ve personally liked Twist, one of the common complaints I see is that they are just re-balanced retro formats. Obviously the last Twist wasn’t like this but there were issues of complaints (can’t judge Twist off of one format people didn’t like) and one of the over-arching issues is that the format is inaccessible because it’s focused around a Wild card pool. I don’t think this last aspect is an issue, Standard just doesn’t have the depth to play around with alternative rules that makes it in any way significantly different from the Standard we are playing now and honestly I think it’s more important to (1) allow players with Wild collections to have a space to play outside of Wild, (2) incentivize people to start building Wild collections, (3) sell new Twist product like what we got with Caverns of Time. I think the only axis of discussion left is that initial complaint – Twist being revised versions of retro formats.

From what I’ve heard from other Wild players is that Twist sounded exciting when it was announced because we would get cube-like formats that would distinguish itself from Wild and give Wild players an area to play in that didn’t have the problematic power issues that Wild has. Even though Wild has recently had some balancing changes that make it playable, before it felt like the only people playing Wild were people looking to abuse these obviously busted strategies in a format where everyone else is playing nothing but obviously busted strategies or people looking to carve out some space with homebrews which were, for the most part, competing terribly.

Although I’ve disagreed with the philosophy that Wild should be THE place where anything goes and the meta will sort itself out, I’ve disagreed with that philosophy because Wild was simultaneously the only place where you could play decks that never existed historically in Standard because of the lack of support. It wasn’t until recently when elemental shaman actually became a playable class because the history of released elemental cards were so limited throughout Standard that it simply never became playable until Into the Badlands, and so if you wanted to play an elemental deck before this point your only place was Wild. The issue this creates is that (1) elemental shaman is a singular example of archetypes that had support spread so thin over the years that it took multiple years for any competent decklists to sprout (2) by the time they did solidify into competency it was far too late because these adolescent decks were competing with OTK and aggro strategies built on years of refinement and utilizing increasingly power crept card choices.

To put it most simply, there are too many cards in Wild that do not see play. The crazy thing is that there are a number of other cards that would have also been good in Standard (or pre-Standard) but were so horribly balanced and never rebalanced that they never saw the light of day, either. Brave Archer for example COULD have been a card that just said “inspire: deal 2 damage to the enemy hero,” and yet it has the stipulation of having an empty hand. Other cards, like Light’s Champion, could have simply destroyed a demon (or perhaps not since I’m not sure if the Lord Jaraxxus interaction being a demon was fixed at this point).

Anyway, Twist was hyped up as a thing where people could not only play with new strategies that just never existed due to balancing and “print” issues but also because there was infinite potential to mix and match legal sets throughout Hearthstone’s history. It really became a case of limitations creating innovations and instead players felt like what they got was more of what they’ve already played. Admittedly, Twist did address one of the issues with card usability with the balance changes and I think MOST players responded to Caverns of Time pretty well considering we got a ton of new cards, some of which even see play IN Wild (Runi, Time Explorer for highlander paladin). There were some failings with balance since C’Thun strategies ended up being WAYYYY too good but it’s fine, trial and error. We can allow some mulligans here and there.

Really, I hope Blizzard isn’t thinking about abandoning the format. If there’s anything I’ve learned playing this since release it’s that many of the shortcomings just come from things not being done well enough, not that because they were bad ideas. Like I mentioned earlier with the inspire mechanic, it’s not that the mechanic is inherently bad but if you print nothing but bad cards with that mechanic, of course it’s easy to chalk it up as just being a failure and never print another inspire card again (which is the case).

Just take the risk of giving us a cube-like format that rotates and let the players figure things out. Continue releasing Twist product and for all intents and it could be the next big competitive format for Hearthstone. Because it’s rotating maybe the best way to look at it isn’t an alternative to Wild but a convincing case for Wild players to have their own Standard.

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Its built to make money, thats it

Yeah that’s kind of what companies all try to do.

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Constructed is doomed if it requires wild only cards to be competitive. You think new players even keep old cards around?

It’s a doomed self destructive endeavor to create veteran-only formats.

No, twist only exists for that

What Twist Should Be

Non-existent.

Next question.

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I mean several other games have formats like this and Hearthstone is a lot more new-player friendly simply from a cost perspective. Pioneer replaced Legacy in official tournament settings (which was pretty hotly contested), and Legacy is THE veteran format for Magic. People still complain about it. A pretty good portion of threads on here are about Wild and Reddit has a pretty decent amount of threads that are wild-centric. People still clearly play the format but a lot of players left due to good-will (or lack thereof) with balancing. Twist would be one way to address the balancing of Wild.

I think there’s also something wrong with saying that players who have kept their collections shouldn’t be allowed to play in a meaningful environment. Also, Twist could be on a longer life cycle than the original plans. Instead of month or two month cycles it could be 6-12 month cycles. Gives people time to build collections and actually play with them, also gives an excuse to keep cards knowing that the sets they invest in will eventually make their rounds again.

I mean if Standard players are going to keep playing Standard, what do they card what happens with Wild players? Addressing the issues with the format doesn’t hurt Standard players. There’s only upside IMO

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See I argued the same thing around the time duels got removed. It was something that was a burning building struggling to hold together, I won’t deny that. But nerfs aimed at cards op in duels is apparently counterproductive compared to aiming nerfs at the current most played thing in the game in the devs eyes. They could have salvaged it and kept it from forever being known as “Bomb rattlegore mode” in my eyes, but instead they chose to let the fire fully consume the mode and act like it never existed. Leaving the people who enjoyed playing the best decks they could create in duels (which yes happened to be bomb rattlegore at the time of me playing it, but the gamemode gave me the Darius Crowley training to beat Witchwood so there were others) depressed, and the ones who didn’t play duels at all unaffected and happy, blissfully ignorant of the devs firing an entire department devoted to maintaining the balance of the fallen game mode.

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This ^ is what I generally had in mind when I proposed a new mode, which used Wild cards and used rotating pools or sets much like Arena does, but could include a rules twist, like Tavern Brawls, but the devs kind of bungled this concept while immediately exploring ways to monetize Twist beyond just expanding a market for old cards, even before they got the mode up and running in a popular way.

This kind of a sloppy, rushed approach, which is combined with greed and a lack of vision is exactly the same reason for why Mercenaries failed.

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If you have VETERAN-ONLY formats, you awe it to the future of your game to absolutely anti-promote them to the UI; they shouldn’t even show Wild as an “equal alternative” as they do now on the UI; the rewards should be worse etc.

It’s so obvious it’s unproductive for the future of the game to gain and keep new players that the only explanation for the self-destruction they keep in the game is that it sells cards but short-term profits often harm the long term.

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Personally I wouldn’t let anyone in wild until they’ve completed at least one solo adventure and gotten SOME gear to show for it. It doesn’t have to be every legendary from the League Trilogy like I went and got, just force them to sit through Ambassador Faelins story mode until they get him as a legendary from the acheivement, I’d say the colossals and suken city as a whole is a good stepping stone for one to use to enter wild with all things considered, much easier starting point than Natharia or Whispers of the Old Gods or whatever tf donk swing of the lich king’s story will give them anyway

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