That literally makes no sense. Top tier is what is the best in the game. The best decks at the highest standard are top tier. You’re trolling or completely delusional.
1 Like
You just unironically tried to explain to me that esports and streamers are more important than everyday players having fun. It is precisely the other way around and you couldn’t have it more backwards. Tournaments are marketing, not reality. I don’t give a crap what happened at Worlds.
1 Like
No, I did not. I explained to an infant that the definition of “strongest” is the deck that wins the most at the highest level.
1 Like
You can’t get data on the highest level. It’s too scarce. Every meta is populated by humans who make mistakes because they’re human. There is no such thing as a deck that’s played perfectly, all you can do is send the error level to some non-zero amount. The best error level for each person is set is the realistic one that reflects their actual capabilities.
This is such a joke argument. You are changing your argument over and over. The average player is not Diamond. The best deck is not the average or fun deck. The best deck is the one that wins the most at the highest level. It’s that simple. You are basically implying that there is no difference between Diamond and Legend. There is! And the difference between Legend and Top Legend is even harder! What deck gives the best players in the world the best chance of winning? That is tier 1. What deck gives the average player the best chance of winning? It’s also often tier 1, but that statistic is NOT the same as the BEST deck to play at the highest level, which is tier 1 or tier 0. Every other game will tell you this. You do not look at locals stats to find the best deck if you are serious about a game. You look at regionals, nationals, and worlds.
2 Likes
Oh, I get it. You want to legitimize Hearthstone’s poor design philosophy. Let’s go back to the days of Yogg winning World’s. =\
1 Like
Chill, guys
None of the data from any of the reports are worth fighting over anymore. The stats are notoriously misleading
Tier 1? Tier 2? Who cares? Where exactly is the line between them anyway?
Do we really fight over which tier they put a deck in based on their imaginary “power rankings”?
There’s nothing new with Reno Warrior being a meta tyrant. It will remain that way as long as brann is not rotated to wild (or at least safety goggles nerfed).
Focus on the other decks, which beat that one and also do well against others. Focus on trying to find a counter for the 2 pally versions which are about to become tyrants.
1 Like
Exactly. Tier 1 and tier 2 barely matter when looking at stats. What matters is what is winning the most at the top. That decides what people play and what people try to counter at the top. Those are the true tier 1 decks of the time, but innovative players can overcome them with tech.
And this happens because HS doesn’t have locals, regionals, nationals, or worlds. So you have to look at Legends, even if the data seems inconclusive. If a deck in Diamond is tier 2, but tier 1 in Legend, how can you say it isn’t tier 1?
3 Likes
On the last day of the month they are.
Never said that, never implied it.
On the last day of the month more than half are D4 or better, and more than a third are Legend. That leaves about a little over a fifth of the playerbase ending between D4 and Legend each month. That’s a significant number, there’s some meaning in making Legend.
But if you think making Legend means you’re elite, ha! Just better than average.
More putting words in my mouth. You’re not even listening to me, you’re just imagining a fictional version of me.
1 Like
That is simply not true, and if it were, it would mean this is a very bad game.
No, I am not. I am just understanding what you are doing. You’re despicable.
It all makes sense about why you don’t want to change cards for balance. You just want HS to be a joke. I guess that’s the only niche it can fill now. So many games have learned from its mistakes.
But beyond that, the best decks are the ones that win the most at the highest level. Most popular isn’t calculated there. Go somewhere else if you want to discuss popularity.
1 Like
I hate reading stuff like this while they still want to call it Tier 1.
“The decks gotten way worse, but it’s Tier 1 guys”.
I want some real stats posted in here or I cannot be swayed whatsoever. Not from VS.
1 Like
I haven’t seen those stats myself and am just arguing philosophy. If it is tier 1 or not, I do not know, but I know my definition of tier 1.
1 Like
That’s NOT what I’m fighting over.
Like imagine if right now I responded to your post by saying “Altair says that Brann Warrior will be a meta tyrant until Safety Goggles is nerfed.” Is it close to what you said? Yes. But is it really what you said? No. It doesn’t matter whether I agree with it, because I’m not talking about whether Warrior will continue to be A. Meta tyrant or not, I’m talking about what you said.
Well, the thread title is “VS Report - Brann Warrior still Tier 1 confirmed.” The report says Brann Warrior is Tier 1 in Legend. It says it’s Tier 2 in Diamond. Dropping the legend context is misquoting vicious Syndicate
1 Like
You’re constantly trying to deflect and change the point. You have literally stated that “the average” matters more than what is the best. You care more about fun than balance. Yeah, you are clearly trying to justify Hearthstone’s existence.
Your bias has always been incredibly apparent, but now I understand why.
1 Like
It’s still a bit more correct to say it’s tier 1, based on that, than tier 2, because legend has better players. If it’s tier 1 there, it should be tier 1 anywhere with adequate skills.
The data are useful to us as long as they provide useful directions for what to play and what to expect on the ladder. If I plan on reaching legend, I should be skilled enough for legend, which means that the stats of interest to me, are in fact, legend stats.
Diamond stats are only useful to see which decks prove to be most problematic for someone of diamond skill. That can be used for balancing purposes (but shouldn’t, lol, because once people learn how to play against a deck, or play a certain deck, then you have to balance it again, so you do twice more than you would have if you simply balanced around legend).
If you balance around diamonds, you should completely gut a flood pally deck because the winrates there with it reach 80-90% mark. That’s insane for a deck which hasn’t seen play in top legend ranks on its’ peak because it’s one-dimensional hit or miss deck with not much room for outplay.
4 Likes
Well said. But it shouldn’t even need to be said. Obviously best is best. Yeah, you could tech something and get lucky and beat the best, but that’s not a good measure of what is best now.
In fact, accepting what is at the top gives you the best chance to strategize and beat it.
2 Likes
That’s what always worked for me, and that’s why/how I got out of diamond the first time, some 9 years ago
I don’t see why it would be any different today or in 7 years.
If you wanna beat someone at your level, you learn from someone on the higher level. You don’t expect the referees to adjust the game to be more in your favour.
Oh, and, if you just wanna have fun and play homebrewn decks, well then you don’t give a damn about tier lists and netdecking anyway. You just play your own things and occassionally open a thread to vent about some tier 3 deck which counters yours but sees play in lower ranks (plague dks, wishing well rogues…)
2 Likes
I see imbalance, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t think about it. When I was younger, I used to see imbalance and think it was so, but I’d blame myself. Say I wasn’t good enough. But I rose to high ranks despite the imbalance and not giving into it. So, yeah, I learned that I was usually right. A good player can tell when a card is overpowered, even just after playing it once. The average player is gold, and even if they were diamond, to assume the average player experience is tier 1 is crazy.
1 Like
That doesn’t follow at all.
Consider for a moment Excavate Rogue. The deck has a high skill factor and it wavers from just above to just below 50% winrate in top Legend, which means that below Legend it’s an absolute train wreck. As a result the deck is rather heavily played in top 1000 Legend and is rarely played at Diamond 4-1. Smoothbrains get frustrated with it.
So now consider a deck where vs Excavate Rogue is a really good matchup. (Incidentally, Reno Warrior fits this description.) Can you see how such a deck might be significantly better against the meta at T1KL than it is at D4-1?
Top Legend players normally don’t worry about this too much, because throughout Diamond if their deck doesn’t carry them then their skill almost certainly will. But that’s not a Tier 1 deck, that’s a Tier 1 player with a Tier 2 deck. It’s Tier 2 because deck popularity matters and deck popularity is different at different ranks.
Where do you get such insane numbers? Aggro Paladin is 57% at d4-1
What drew so many people to Spell Mage? The deck isn’t even that interesting. I just hope that when it gets nerfed, it won’t affect cards that could be useful in other future decks.
This data seems inflated compared to the current situation. People were initially excited about the new deck but have now realized it’s a mulligan deck, easily beaten by anything with healing. Considering the heavy reliance on drawing the right cards and the overall dull gameplay, I expect it will decline in the next report.
Aside from that, is there data on the most popular deck currently?