What’s the difference between this card and say a card like Blood Boil? They both do about the same thing and yet you can still beat BDK. The problem isn’t card the problem is your play skill.
Maybe it’s the 3/6 minion on top of a stronger Blood Boil.
No it completely and wholly is not just skill difference. You can 100% pick what decks top 1k likes to play from historical trends. The ALWAYS play certain decks higher than every other point on the ladder ALWAYS.
Hint: It’s rarely hunter or paladin.
I never said this, I said it wasn’t the biggest factor.
The thing is, I can prove that the match ups are different, you can’t prove that skill is the issue because you haven’t measured it. I know you want to tell me your filter does it for you, but math does not work in the way you think it does.
What you can’t tell is if this is because better players chose a different deck… meaning the less skilled players were the only ones playing hunter. You need longitudinal data to make statements about skill’s impact on win rate with a specific deck.
No, that’s only slightly favored. Going from slightly favored to slightly unfavored isn’t that big of a change and lots of factors that are not skill can explain this change.
And that other deck needs warrior to rise to that level. This is what I mean by a weighted average.
All of the parts move when you change brackets.
It’s not an apples to apples thing like you all want it to be. It’s a pocket meta and conclusions you draw from it are only applicable to that pocket meta.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that people don’t force decks at top 1k that flat don’t work at diamond? Because control priest and, a few weeks ago, zok druid called and want a word.
The lack of aggro changes the meta, and the lack of aggro is about people don’t like it more than the power.
You can’t continue to lie to yourself and everyone else and act like top 1k isn’t an artificial pocket meta. It 100% is an artificial pocket meta that should NOT be as influential in balance as it historically has been.
So we are talking about BDK which at best is maybe tier 2? Still a play skill issue.
No we are not talking about BDK.
We are comparing Hollow Hound, to a card that has a comparable effect (Blood Boil), to understand if Hollow Hound is broken and needs to be nerfed.
Blood Boil is one of the stronger cards of BDK and Hollow Hound just came and completely power crept it.
Arguably a stronger Blood Boil which comes with a 3/6 body on top. The card is just plain broken, and Hunter just makes it even more broken with the stat buffs. It’s a no brainer that the card is in need of a nerf.
So you are complaining about a deck that is at best tier two and barely sees any ladder play beyond those either forcing it or that’s all they have to play with?
Pretty sure you missed the Hunter part. Nobody is saying this card is broken on BDK but on Hunter.
You just did. Regardless it’s not broken in Hunter because there are multiple top tier decks and hunter isn’t some oppressive deck that is keeping the game to a 3 class meta. There’s a full seven classes with top tier competitive decks ATM. It’s a tool hunter uses to counter decks that are ignoring the board and shipping everything face.
It’s the same deck man.
It just beats hunter at top 1k legend and doesn’t at lower brackets.
Yes, top legend players do shun away from decks with low ability to flex skill (typically hunter/paladin), but they still usually play them when they are the best deck at that bracket, because they still want to win.
Decks that only work in top meta due to a weird pocket are the exceptions, not the rule. Usually they function better there because the deck gains the mist win % when played better.
Hunter loses win % as the opponent (and hunter) plays better. Several individual matchups get worse as the hunter opponents get better.
It’s a massive change. A 1% difference in aggregate win rate changes a deck tier at that level.
It’s also very one dimensional and easy to counter, which is why it’s rarely used at top legend. People know how to beat it with a wider variety of decks up there, where diamond players are sitting there like “well, they played a hawkstrider, guess I lose”
When aggro lacks the easy counter, it absolutely gets played at top legend. We aren’t far removed from aggro unholy DK infesting that tier of play.
People aren’t just forcing deck archetypes at top legend. They are legitimately using the decks that work best there, which is sometimes different than lower tiers because some decks have significantly better win rate %s at top tier play (even against the same decks that they might lose to in diamond), which makes them meta forces there when they aren’t in lower skill brackets.
I’m gonna stop answering simply for this. You are clearly fishing for reactions.
… so not having mages in the meta completely changes a deck tier and you’ve, again, made my point for me that the meta is more important that the power of the deck.
BECAUSE OF THE POCKET META.
The only reason they have that much more play is that they work IN THAT POCKET META.
You, again, make my points for me and then ignore them.
THe skill is not as important at the meta. It is META not skill that changes things.
That is a bunch of bullcrap.
They like to play discover and combo. They like to have random games.
Most of the rest of the ladder hates this.
They 100% have a preference for decks that play like choose your own adventure books, and that’s fine, but it’s not typical and it shouldn’t be the ideal for balance because it’s not the norm across the ladder.
This is like saying all golfers should play from the tips all the time because that is what makes the game most fair for the best golfers in the world. No, golf isn’t stupid - they know they need more than tour pros to have a successful game.
Pocket metas only form because of deck performance differences. They don’t just magically appear, and deck preferences aren’t massively different up there compared to the rest of the field. The best decks stay the best decks if it’s an arbitrary shift in play rates.
I’d say pocket metas mostly form because of performance differences. Don’t get me wrong, Neon is being totally ridiculous acting like the #1 factor is a complete non-factor, but there is a tiny little sprinkle of arbitrary in the mix. It’s not a fully rational system, just a mostly rational one.
Aye, a little bit. Paladin has been shunned occasionally even when tier 1 in top legend performance. It never disappeared, but we do occasionally see decks over / under played based on their win rates there.
We see that across the board though. I can’t tell you how many combo mage decks have been barely tier 2, but nerfed because almost 25% of the meta is playing them.
Those arbitrary favorings don’t usually create metas that make a deck look weaker though (unless something is really polarized and a giant chunk of that meta), they just aren’t using the still obviously good deck.
1 Like
Oh yes you could. Although that might be preaching to the choir, I’d still have a good time.
1 Like
How is this thread still alive? Go talk about new Titans or something. We’ve all had this conversation a dozen times.
Can we count only standart atleast?
Because if we count wild the number can get over 30.
Actually in less than 1 month of twist we already got the first barely tier 2 combo mage nerf there too.
This card is the only reason hunter is good right now, sorry, but it is.
1 Like
Actually I even stated in the OP that it’s not a problem in BDK; sure you can double it’s stats with Lorthramar but it’s not a rune card that can be copied, like how Hunter can with Selective Breeder.
Wgat do you talking about hound hunter is t1 and sees tones of play
1 Like