Precisely. Kill the root (DoL) and you kill the tree (it’s crazy consequences).
It’s a 10 mana card. It’s supposed to be powerfull and game ending. Even at 12 damage, It’s not. It’s a bad card, and It does not need further nerfs because Mage is playing It. It makes no sense.
2 Likes
But OP is right. You all prove Mallenroh correct when you are so obviously on a witch hunt to punish mage for winning.
I agree something needs to be done, everyone does. But you are all clearly not interested in fixing anything from a logical standpoint. You just want the class dead.
Everyone claims they wouldn’t have a problem with DoL if it provided a 50/50 chance to be beneficial. OP is pointing out that really, the only card that causes DoL to climb to unacceptable win rates is Nagrand Slam. Yet your only retort is "blah blah blah punish hunter "
Again with the punish. Nerfs are not punishment, they are attempts to fix the balance of the game. If you can target a completely unused epic from an older set, rather than a highly used legendary from a new set, then that’s a win.
It shows your low IQ mob mentality to be ranting and raving about punishing mage.
Also everyone who claims that spring water should also be nerfed immediately, just more proof of a witch hunt. Spring water may very well be a ‘meh’ card, if DoL wasn’t carrying no-minion mage, thanks to a single spell, which is worthless in it’s respective class.
“BUT BUTBUTBUTBUT if you nerf it to 9 then mage will run 6 mana spells and get nothing but Libram of Hope and Slam!”
ORLY? explain to me what 6 mana spells mage would run in that scenario.
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Mage is my 2nd most played class and I think this card is dumb and needs to die. Not everyone is blinded by hatred for certain classes.
F Priest 
I literally only play Mage.
DoL is busted.
4 Likes
Claims to favor nuance, then:
Mage is far and away my primary class. Deck of Lunacy is an absurd card right now that, as a meme-y uber RNG card should not be the centerpoint or strongest thing Mage can do in the meta.
The people with no sense of nuance are the ones that think without DoL, Mage is screwed as a class. Mage has several viable builds available to it ON TOP of the fact that Spell Mage would still be playable even if everyone just swapped out DoL for something else, it just wouldn’t have the absurd blowouts that make it as popular as it is right now.
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what’s your win rate with no-minion mage sans DoL?
It was around 50/50 before I added it. Plenty of others were doing just fine with it as well, not adding DoL until it was proven to be an OP highroll card.
This isn’t true. Libram of Hope is very benefical to mage, too. The problem originates with mage having Deck of Lunacy and thereby having access to spells from other classes. You don’t nerf other classes because of that, you nerf Deck of Lunacy. And I have to keep restating this, but we do not know what that nerf will be. We have to wait and see. We shouldn’t be jumping to conclusions.
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You can’t get libram of Hope and Slam in the same DoL, unless you run an alternate deck list with grand finale or something, which totally throws your chances if you don’t draw incanters AND lunacy early.
Thank you. A list of what mage can be given via DoL would be useful.
nerfs are not punishments.
You fix the balance by adjusting whatever it takes.
DoL is a special case, obviously, because of how it works.
Jandice will be another topic, for the same reason. The goal is not to punish the class and just kill a much loved and powerful but not usually overpowered card. If you change some completely unused neutrals in order to balance the effective win rate of this class card, so be it.
I agree, they are not punishments. And as for me, I certainly do not want to punish mage – I love the class. But we need to be objective here and Deck of Lunacy needs to be changed in someway.
Yes, nerfs aren’t punishments, but hitting an already weak card Just to “supposedly” make a strong one fall in line is Dumb, specially when the card isn’t overperforming in their own class.
And that’s assuming the Very generous proposition that nerfing Slam would curb DoL winrates, and not the, you know, 0 mana fireballs, 2 mana Skulls of Guldan and 3 mana Masks of C’thun, plus all the free draw.
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Way to complicated due to incanter’s flow.
Normally, you can’t get any 9 mana spells off DoL (of which there’s only Hope), because mage has no 6 mana spells.
But if you play Flow before DoL, you can reduce your 7 mana cards to 6, then they become 9’s
In order to get both Hope AND Slam in your DoL, you’d need to run 8 mana spells in addition to your 7 mana, AND play incanter’s flow BEFORE DoL.
Listen, you could be right. I’m not trying to say that nerfing DoL isn’t the solution.
My point is to acknowledge that there’s a mob screaming to simply kill mage at any cost because they hate losing to randomized win cons.
OP is not incorrect to want to explore the possibility that altering other cards within the pool might fix the problem, but that the mob doesn’t want to hear ideas because they are keen on dishing out punishment
I feel like mage players need to lose the whole victim mentality. You have some good decks this expansion, stop fooling yourself.
Exploring other possibilities is great, but, the alternatives are worse solutions than the solution of nerfing Deck of Lunacy. That’s all.
What? Nerfs aren’t punishments, and altering other class cards never was an option to be considered.
They aren’t problematic. Not even strong.
They are problematic because DOL is discounting them for 3 and putting It on other classes.
And people aren’t mad at Lunacy because they hate Mage. Lunacy is, statistically, busted. I play Mage, and even I am sick and tired of It.
2 Likes
So if Wand Theif was ever to be a problem for Rogue the OP would be ok with nerfing a huge chunk of mage spells just so that rogue falls back in line.
Whatever the most effective strategy is, yes.
Again, I’m not saying that nerfing Slam IS the calculated best solution, just that it should be considered.
Nerfing multiple cards to fix one seems wasteful an inefficient, so no, that would probably never be considered.
OP was pointing out that DoL wasn’t a problem before, may not be a problem later, and is (possibly) only a problem now because of Slam. Refusing to consider that shows intent on hunting the witch rather than wanting to actually balance the game.